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What idea about gibbon do you support? (before voting please read all explanations)
only takeoff angle correction 67%  67%  [ 12 ]
more aggressive inrun position 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
more aggressive flight position from takeoff to landing 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
keeping physics untouched, but with judging if gibbon was used or not 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
keep the current situation running 33%  33%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 18
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PostPosted: 09 Apr 2020, 13:00 
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Joined: 17 Aug 2012, 13:34
Posts: 1583
Location: Łódź
As I decided to abandon a gibbon technique last year, I realized a few time later that jumping without gibbon makes playing DSJ4 much more fun. I spend last days thinking how it will be possible to make beating records in DSJ4 much more fun without spoiling it with gibbon in times, when number of gibbon users isn't possible to count even on all fingers on hand. And still more, more and more players are learning this controversial technique. We have situation where:

    Offline:
  • all WRs are with gibbon
  • difference between top TL with gibbon and top TL without gibbon is over 20 meters
  • in top10 TL, 7 are made fully with gibbon

    Online:
  • 23/24 WRs are with gibbon
  • difference between top TL with gibbon and top TL without gibbon is over 20 meters, too
  • in top10 TL, also 7 are made fully with gibbon


Yes, I also was going this way. I also counted myself in these stats. But I "proselytised" myself, as I have written before.


I think it's time to change. It should be important to all DSJ4 community. So I decided to create a poll. Here are my explanations of every suggestions which I put on it. I forestall that in game it wouldn't be 100% as visible as I presented below, not counting last two suggestions.

IMPORTANT! There is no need to reset all hill records, if any of 1-4 suggestions will be introduced in game. The best idea is keeping old list and creating new, with possibility to come back to old versions (but only in offline game of course).


1. only takeoff angle correction
In my opinion is the easiest way from every which depends on chaning physics.

    Pros:
  • lower flight trajectory over the knoll, actually seems to be a bit too high
  • flight trajectory in whole flight will be more flat and stable
  • increased flight speed in 2nd part which could also increase jump length in some cases
  • previous point will also affect lowering inrun speed to keep similar distances (lower gates) on large and flying hills

    Cons:
  • increased flight speed in 2nd part would also increase risk of fall on longer distances
  • possible shorter jumps on smaller hills
  • according to 3rd and 4th pros, on some hills it wouldn't be possible to lower gates because it wouldn't be enough of them (for example BM, Bischofshofen HS140, Engelberg)

    ???:
  • maybe gibbon wouldn't be 100% eliminated, just only effectivity would be reduced, but it may be dependent on level of leaning a jumper when doing takeoff


2. more aggressive inrun position
Also quite easy solution.

    Pros:
  • might cause similar changes to takeoff angle like on first solution, but with smaller effectivity

    Cons:
  • increased inrun speed might be not natural
  • risk of fall will be a bit increased according to 1st con
  • also it's risk that gibbon wouldn't be eliminated in sufficient way


3. more aggressive flight position from takeoff to landing
In my opinion it should look like that: hips should a bit more forward according to torso and head position. Body should go a bit more close to skis line, in similar way to Beta-2 flight style.

    Pros:
  • increased flight speed might increase distances on large and flying hills
  • a bit more flat trajectory which could make landing easier

    Cons:
  • it might cause reducing mouse sensivities, so finding optimal mouse settings could be more difficult
  • increased flight speed might also increase a risk of fall
  • on some hills it wouldn't be possible to lower gates because it wouldn't be enough of them


4. keeping physics untouched, but with judging if gibbon was used or not
Very easy way. Not the easiest, but still quite good.

    Pros:
  • fast way to eliminate players who are using gibbons
  • very little work, only creating new lists and checking replays

    Cons:
  • risk of making non-controled gibbon
  • risk of controversions with decisions about jumps with small gibbons

    ???:
  • replays should be checked by more that one person, Jussi will need help of some players, must be very experienced and have knowledge about gibbon


5. keep the current situation running
The easiest way, but really effective? I don't think so.

    Pros:
  • practically no work on that

    Cons:
  • still possibility to do gibbon without consquences
  • hill records lists won't be clear
  • risk of increasing differences between gibbon players and non-gibbon players will be still huge
  • every of these three cons cause still spoiled fun of rivalry in DSJ4


Jussi, if you try to make some changes in physics about which I wrote above, please don't be afraid to share us test version. We will check it and tell you about our feelings.

So, I'm waiting for your opinions. Please vote! ;)


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PostPosted: 09 Apr 2020, 22:34 
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Joined: 10 Dec 2009, 14:41
Posts: 8
Gibbon was in dsj2, partly in DSJ3. In DSJ 4 the skis go up and we block them, cbut it's not gibbon. You want everyone to jump the same, such thing will kill jumping, it will get very boring.


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PostPosted: 09 Apr 2020, 23:29 
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011, 00:24
Posts: 822
Location: Wrocław,Poland
Bogdan56 wrote:
Gibbon was in dsj2, partly in DSJ3. In DSJ 4 the skis go up and we block them, cbut it's not gibbon. You want everyone to jump the same, such thing will kill jumping, it will get very boring.

This is the worst excuse I've ever seen from a gibbon supporter

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DSJ3 TL - 7846.98m #1
DSJ4 TL - 3539.23m #3 (#1 w/o gibbon)
DSJ4 Online Peak: 1909 #2
TDD 2013-2020: #2 - #3 - #2 - #2 - #1 - #2 - #1 - #1

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PostPosted: 09 Apr 2020, 23:35 
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Joined: 24 Jul 2011, 14:02
Posts: 662
Since the problem is inside the takeoff, I believe it's takeoff changes that should be implemented here first and that's what I voted for. Although, it might be either the mix of options 1 and 3.

5 - is not even worth mentioning.
2 - I don't think it would change much.
4 - is very bad, because currently, you can make little gibbon by accident. Dominik Miny was the one who experienced that, and by accident he probably became the first user of "gibbon" in DSJ4. So, it's not an easy task to judge these.

Bogdan56 wrote:
Gibbon was in dsj2, partly in DSJ3. In DSJ 4 the skis go up and we block them, cbut it's not gibbon. You want everyone to jump the same, such thing will kill jumping, it will get very boring.


Yeah, and by the way, jumps in DSJ2 and DSJ3 were really different from each other, especially if you were about to make a really good record, sure :lol:

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DSJ3 TL: 7753.22m (#41), online: 7620.36m
DSJ4 TL: 3537.21m (#7), online: 3487.77m (#18)

DSJ3 PB: 317.78m (#54)
DSJ4 PB: 241.61m (#7)


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PostPosted: 09 Apr 2020, 23:45 
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Joined: 17 Aug 2012, 13:34
Posts: 1583
Location: Łódź
Of course as I wrote, we will know much more if we test every solution from 1-3. Without that, we wouldn't expect any positive effects of course if there is any interest from Jussi. I wouldn't count on being passive, especially when we see how many players are using gibbon technique actually, and when we see that number of players who are against gibbon, which isn't quite small.

No problem if it will decrease a skill of some gibbon technique users - believe me, jumping without gibbon is more fun even if it is more difficult ;) unless you don't like tough challenges :P

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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2020, 00:02 
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Joined: 14 Apr 2012, 23:36
Posts: 159
I agree with a fresh list, keeping the current ones too and possibility to watch the replays, but that would also require much work from Jussi with the game and thinking about what he told here in the recent years, I don't have much hope for it.

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DSJ2 Total Length: 5438,88m
DSJ3 Total Length: 7814,74m
DSJ4 Total Lenght: 3560,25m (offline)

Combined: 16813.87m


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2020, 17:17 
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Joined: 17 Aug 2012, 13:34
Posts: 1583
Location: Łódź
Well, as I see poll results I think that 4 users who voted for "keep the current situation running" are players using gibbon technique. Nice try :lol:


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2020, 18:17 
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Joined: 31 Mar 2020, 21:10
Posts: 1
"Well, as I see poll results I think that 4 users who voted for "keep the current situation running" are players using gibbon technique. Nice try"

No, it's a players, who knows, that everything is OK. Normal players don't search a problems in everything.


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2020, 00:48 
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Joined: 10 Dec 2009, 14:41
Posts: 8
Nice survey. 14 people voted for several thousand competitors. This is evidence of what others think about this survey.


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PostPosted: 10 Jul 2020, 13:45 
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Joined: 07 Feb 2017, 23:31
Posts: 15
Gibbon is a physics glitch that I think would have been fixed a long time ago if Jussi was still working on the game. It makes jumps look silly and unrealistic. Using it is glitch abuse, which is pretty much cheating. Anyone defending it is a clown and probably aware that they would absolutely suck if they couldn't use it.
That being said, the probability of Jussi doing anything with it is very close to zero. The chance that it will be fixed is close to the chance that Jussi will add a new hill. It's just not happening.


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