have u cheated?

[Mystikal]

I couldnt care less with the records thats taken offline, when I know theyre not taken with the default settings you got when you started playing. So yeah the list doesnt proove anything, it just prooves that the guy who have spent the most time planning the ski jump ( in slowdown it can take 1 minute to fly) wins. Really, its sad, but if you enjoy playing like this. Fine.

And to Aasmund, you should try the online version.

[Bart]

planning the ski jump is not enough. heh if you think with slow motion tou can "build" ideal jump you wrong. Jumping with slowmotion is the same like without, diffrent is only timing.

And i trayed online gaming its good but now i haven't subcriobion

[aasmund_o]

I think people who manage to figure out how to cheat and find alternative ways of doing something on is clever. Many good things have come from people who think ahead of (and in other direction).But I also think that when you compete in the same area or same game it should be on the same level. Its very sad to see that so many thinks its ok to get this small pre against the other. Yes i am sure using slowmo doesnt give you a record - you have to practize and spend alot of hours behind your pc. Just like all the others.. its one great divede.. we cant get paid ...Maybe some will say this is just a game and i am taking this all to hard.. maybe .. but i dont care if some think so - i like playing and i hate get fooled around. Its like real sports .. who like it when someone use methods who help them against the other..
Its for everyone to use - and if you will win you have to do it.
Still hope the list (hill records) get deleted .. i can help you with the sql if you need help

[Torsten]

I think people who manage to figure out how to cheat and find alternative ways of doing something on is clever. Many good things have come from people who think ahead of (and in other direction).But I also think that when you compete in the same area or same game it should be on the same level. Its very sad to see that so many thinks its ok to get this small pre against the other. [...]

You didn't read the whole thread, did you?
SlowMo was NOT used to cheat or to beat those who don't use it. It was used to take part at the competition for the longest jumps. As said 1000 times before: everyone (those who jumped with this tool included!) wanted the slowmo no to work ... but it worked and so the only way to fight for the longest jumps at the record lists was to use the tool too!

Yes: it is annoying, but as long as it works the tool will be used ... that's the same thing as at the first online-worldcup: there were 70 players and they wanted to leave the wc for starting a new one at ZERO .. but there were 3 players who didn't want and so all had to wait for them ...

[Thomas]

SlowMo was NOT used to cheat or to beat those who don't use it.

The hill records on mediamond.fi is a competition. Whether you use slowmo or not, your records will end up on the same list. Using slowmo gives you an unfair advantage over those that don't. Hence slowmo is cheating. The End.

[Bart]

About unfair When the xspeed pro had been dicovered noone hide this, it was offical informatiion everyone who's want to find this information can found this. Of course you can say what about new players who start the game. If they didint looking for some information about how to jump they never could close to the best. Its neccery. they can't be best play alone. In my opinon most of pooplee who say "this is cheat" tryed this tool but they can't be beter than without. I know that some people can't learn how to jump with.

And next "about unfair" When Metsi diovered that xspeed pro still working on some computers in 1,5 version he didnt hide this information, and i personely mailed to Jussi abot this.

As i said before xspeed pro had been accpeted by many good players, players on the top without that tool.

[Grufugl]

I totally agree with Thomas.

We all compete on the same lists, cheaters and non-cheaters. "But all the others use it" is not a valid argumentation, things doesn't become more acceptable just because some others also has done it. I think the comparison with stereoids is good.

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself Torsten: Things doesn't become true by repeating.

[Thomas]

Bart, everybody knows that it is possible to use performance enhancing drugs that can make you run faster, lift more, jump higher, etc, but does that mean that everybody should use those drugs? No, that wouldn't be fair to those that want to play the game the way it was meant to be played. In fact, there are laws that prohibit the use of such drugs. There are two reasons for the existance of those laws. 1) Health reasons - Drugs can be dangerous. 2) Equality - It wouldn't be fun to be a 100 m runner if you can run it in 9,75 seconds, while the drugged out athletes does it in 8,2 seconds.

Deluxe Ski Jump is not an organized sport so there are no laws that can prevent you from using "performance enhancing applications", only morals. It doesn't pose any health risk to use them either. Nevertheless the comparison to the real world is valid, and although you and the rest of the slowmo jumpers want to play your own version of the game, you've successfully managed to kill the offline part of the competition for everybody else. It saddens me that you are too selfsentered and narrowminded to see this.

[zonaren]

SlowMo was NOT used to cheat or to beat those who don't use it.

The hill records on mediamond.fi is a competition. Whether you use slowmo or not, your records will end up on the same list. Using slowmo gives you an unfair advantage over those that don't. Hence slowmo is cheating. The End.

Yeah,
and one important thing; DSJ is a realistic Ski Jumping game, and i think it was that Jussi wanted with the game. Real Ski Jumping isnt in SloMo.
The whole point with Ski Jumping is to take off at the right time and place.

[taf]

Can i just tell something too you guys the xspeed tool was helping for better jumping, but still look that
SUI:166,xx without xspeed
FIN:230,90 without xspeed
CHN:276 without xspeed (278 xspeed, 285 sevo-bug)

Hmm and plz tell me yours records on CHINA, i look at first 5 who are in the peak online records and they arent even close to this record...Whats the diffrent there, just becuase we had jump like 2 meters more like we would,.. You people still have low records even if you play without xspeed

[Torsten]

[...]Nevertheless the comparison to the real world is valid, and although you and the rest of the slowmo jumpers want to play your own version of the game, you've successfully managed to kill the offline part of the competition for everybody else. It saddens me that you are too selfsentered and narrowminded to see this.

OMG ... a last very slow(mo *g*) explanation for you Thomas:
1. Xspeed is discovered as working on DSJ
2. Some ppl use it and improve their records (that's annoying)
3. You cannot proof if a record was done with or XSpeed's help
4. You wanna compete anyway
5. Decision:
- a) i have to used it, too (again: Xspeed alone doesn't make worldrecs! good skills are VERY necessary, too!) and i battle on for records
- b) i don't use it, and i confine myself to bitch about those cheaters (but it doesn't change anything)



PS: See you tonight on WC@19.00-CET-Slot
PPS: Is
- jumping with 300 players at nearly perfect wind conditions
- knowledge about the rotating wind (same wind every 18 jumpers)
- analyzing of the hills construction
- etc.
"cheating" too, because of the others don't use these advantages?

[Thomas]

(again: Xspeed alone doesn't make worldrecs! good skills are VERY necessary, too!)

Nobody has ever doubted the fact that skills are still necessary. Ben Johnson ran 100 meters in 9,79 seconds in the 1988 olympics. The fastest time by anyone else at the time, was 9,92 seconds by Carl Lewis. That is a big gap. As we all know, Ben Johnson was filled to the brim with stereoids, so he lost his gold and both his World Records. Although he cheated, I don't think there are many who believes that Ben Johnson didn't really have any skills. Of course he had skills! He was a damn fast runner, but the stereoids gave him that extra edge that made him soar above the other competitors. XSpeed will give a good jumper that very same edge.

[Torsten]

XSpeed will give a good jumper that very same edge.

Did some jumps vor viktors offline-tournament WITHOUT XSPEED on BELGIUM ... i broke your rekord with the following handicaps:
- min required speed 84 km/h
- telemark landing
Did a jump with better wind too: 132m ... after playing SOME minutes ... so don't hide behind the xspeed-thingie ... it simply was necessary to compete with the longest jumps (which were done with this tool too ... stupidly ...)

Believe me: I hope there will be a secure fix against uploading of xspeed-records soon and THEN you will see that the old BEST jumpers WITH xspeed will be the best again

[Mystikal]

OMG ... a last very slow(mo *g*) explanation for you Thomas:
1. Xspeed is discovered as working on DSJ
2. Some ppl use it and improve their records (that's annoying)
3. You cannot proof if a record was done with or XSpeed's help
4. You wanna compete anyway
5. Decision:
- a) i have to used it, too (again: Xspeed alone doesn't make worldrecs! good skills are VERY necessary, too!) and i battle on for records
- b) i don't use it, and i confine myself to bitch about those cheaters (but it doesn't change anything)

1. So does that mean that its fair to use it, just because you found it working on dsj 3? Lets say I found a tool that made me get perfect takeoff and always stable in air, would that be fair? No I dont think so

2. Some ppl use it, I know many many that doesnt know this tool (its not fair that ppl use this tool)

3. ....

4. ?

5. Of course a guy who have found xspeed, must have some experience in this game by that time. So when he uses this (TOOL), he gets that little more time, to improve his skills, which normal ppl dont get. By normal people I mean people that play this game clean.

// cYa - & enjoy this game without cheat tools

[flight_no18]

Ok,some humble toughts from my side It's funny...for over 2 years nobody mentioned word "cheating" and suddenly everybody likes to use it I used to jump without xspeed for quite a while and it was fun.After that WITH xspeed and...it was much more fun
Personally,it will be very easy to me to adapt to the "normal" speed again (if I ever continue to play it) but still...I stand by EVERY word Romek mentioned in his post.I's just matter of perception and individual goals regarding this game.I share the same opinion about this game as he is. For all of those guys who don't like it this new version is a good news,right? And bad news for us cheaters

I admit I don't understand totally the concept of "realistic speed". What we actually compare here? The speed of the jumper and time spent in the air in real ski jumping with the same those parameters in this game...when you have the mouse in your hand watching your jumper flying? I don't see those 2 things in the same way and I don't see full analogy there. My believe is that the game which would be only 10-15% slower (and it's really not much,right?) would be 100% more playable. Those 15% would bring much more percentage of control and perception.

And...yes...the record list is weird joke now and I don't know why Jussi hasitates...