STEALING THE SENSE AND HEART OF THE GAME

[heathcliffe dyba]

Ok we understand that Jussi has a difficult task here he is studying and has a life and he keeps this game on track and anything I type is not directed at Jussi or to be rude in the slightest way. What myself and other fond dsj fans are saying here is that whether they are cheating or not is a question that doesnt need answering because most of us with any sense know they are. Now you look across the whole dsj community and even the very best jumpers are over 100m overall total lenght behind these two guys or one guy please do excuse me. Also Within hours of the new hills being released Mr Jaluvka had 310m in Iceland which is a record that will never be beaten by a non-cheater that is. The worst part of this is its a false achievement which is in itself laughable and you dont need to be a frigin expert to know this.

Going back to what Jano O was mentioning I think we have a right to be angry and upset yes he is totally right if there is a cheater out there you adress that and have right to be upset and angry. From what I gather Jani O and people like him love the game a lot and have been playing for years so do not deny people that right to be angry under such circumstances. I guess if Usain Bolt finished the 100m 2 seconds ahead of the field you wouldnt see that as cheating either. Why the heck should people have to watch their pbs lie about 10+ behind the so called world records?
If these guys wanted to defend their jumping abilities they would at least come online and prove to the very people who call them cheaters that they are genuine. I can bet my bottom dollar we will never see either of them win the monthly marathon or wednesday and saturday wc for that matter.

Yawn

[Jussi Koskela]

Ok we understand that Jussi has a difficult task here he is studying...

Actually I already graduated.

From what I gather Jani O and people like him love the game a lot and have been playing for years so do not deny people that right to be angry under such circumstances.

I am not denying emotions from any of you, just trying to keep the discussion in control for your own good. It's pretty easy to slip into writing something which might be considered as defamation for which you might have to stand at the end of the day.

I guess if Usain Bolt finished the 100m 2 seconds ahead of the field you wouldnt see that as cheating either. Why the heck should people have to watch their pbs lie about 10+ behind the so called world records?

He wouldn't be disqualified for winning 2 seconds.

[heathcliffe dyba]

lol funny quote about usain bolt ahh you graduated so your officially a clever person now lol. Congratulations to you I bet you are happy all the work is out of the way.

[Jan Cihosky]

WHO IS WHINNING AND WHO IS CHILDISH?

You do not see your own nose. I am talking about the sense of the game itself, about the reason why all of us are playing it!

THE MAJORITY OF THE GOOD JUMPERS PLAY IT TO BEAT THE WORLD RECORD.
COMPETITION IS THE NAME OF THE GAME, THAT IS WHY WE HAVE ONLINE RACES.
TO GIVE US THE POSSIBILITY TO SEE HOW GOOD WE ARE COMPARED TO OTHER WORLD PLAYERS.
WHEN I SEE THE GUYS LIKE STUCHLIK, KONIECNY, SKALIK, KARAS, GORZKIEWICZ, BOROWIECKI, JOHNSEN, KOBOLD, BALL, ORAVISJÄRVI, KAFKA I AM GOING CRAZY BECAUSE THESE GUYS ARE THE WORLDS TOP JUMPERS AND THEY ALTOGETHER POSSES NO WORLD RECORDS AT ALL. IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?
ARE THESE JUMPERS SO BAD?
YOU ARE STILL TALKING PROOFS, PROOFS, PROOFS

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!

WE ARE NOT A POLICE!!!!!!!

EVERYBODY CAN BE DELETED BY US (PLAYERS) IF IT IS A RESULT OF A POLL.
LETS SAY IF MORE THAN 500 PLAYERS WANT JALUVKA AND PFLEGER TO BE DELETED, LETS DO IT!!!!

WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF JUSSI? DO YOU THINK THEY WILL GO TO FINLAND AND FIND YOU BECAUSE YOU DELETED THEM FROM THE GAME?

IF YOU DELETE THEM MAYBE WE WILL FIND OUT SOMETHING MORE ABOUT THEM, MAYBE THEY WILL APPEAR.
TILL NOW THEY HAVE BEEN SILENT. LETS GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO SPEAK.
DO YOU THINK THEY WILL SEND YOU REPLAYS OR OFFEND YOU????
LOL, THEY WILL REMAIN SILENT AS EVER, AND THEY QUIT PLAYING THE GAME.
DONT BEHAVE LIKE INVESTIGATING A CRIME, ITS ONLY A GAME.

GIVE A POLL JUSSI. IT IS NOT YOUR DECISION. IT NEVER WAS. ITS A DECISION OF US (PLAYERS). WE ARE CREATING THE SOUL OF THE GAME. ONLY WE. WE COMPETE AND WE RECOGNIZE WHO CHEATS. WE SEE WHAT YOU ARE TRYING NOT TO SEE.
DO THIS FOR THE GUYS I WROTE ABOUT ABOVE, THEY DESERVE THEIR WRS. THEY ARE THE BEST.


YOU DEFEND TWO SPOILED KIDS JALUVKA AND PFLEGER AGAINST HUNDREDS OF PLAYERS.
IF THIS IS RIGHT THEN I AM REALLY SORRY JUSSI.

[Severin]

oh my god, this post was worse than the one before...

just compare what you write to real life.

you say if 500 people believe they are cheating they should be banned, proof or not.
i.e. if in real life 500 people say that someone has done a murder, proof or not, he should sent lifelong to prison? or sentenced to death?
oh come on, get a grip...

and stop writing everyhting in capital letters, it's hard to read...

[Jan Cihosky]

Oh Severin, you must be blind!

I write that we are not a police and that it is just a game and you instantly compare it to a murder and court and whatever. Are you crazy?
It is a game.

Sorry for teasing you with capital letters.

Only kids compared games with real life and you know where it leads?
Game is exactly the opposite of a real life.
Wake up Severin you are being funny.
I talk here for hundreds for whom do you talk prooffinder?

[Severin]

For whom I write?
For the ones who still think realistic, and just out of frustration...
I do understand you, don't get me wrong, and I personally do think the two are using slowdown, but until there is proof, you can't ban them based on speculation, because you open the door to many other bans...


and if you don't want to compare it with reallife compare it to counterstrike:
You know what happenend when players where able to vote people because they think they cheat... The whole community got suspicious and now everybody who has a bit of skill and is a bit better then the average player gets accused, blamed, kicked and finally banned...

Who don't want that to happen with DSJ, do you?

[Grufugl]

THE MAJORITY OF THE GOOD JUMPERS PLAY IT TO BEAT THE WORLD RECORD.

Do you really believe that? I believe the majority of jumpers, good as well as average and bad, play to have fun while playing: Competing with the ones they meet if they play online, and trying to improve their rating. Competing against their mates and their own personal records trying to improve themselves if they play offline.

COMPETITION IS THE NAME OF THE GAME, THAT IS WHY WE HAVE ONLINE RACES.
TO GIVE US THE POSSIBILITY TO SEE HOW GOOD WE ARE COMPARED TO OTHER WORLD PLAYERS.

Exactly. That's not about wr's. Online is mostly about live competition there and then. And happily, we still have that! I would say that's the most important feature of the game. Just like in real life ski jump: The competition there and then between those who participate is the important thing, not if someone will make a new hill record.
And the best jumper, both in dsj and in real life, for sure is the one who wins most world cup points, not the one who has most hill records. (But sure: If we get online rec's list the online game can also be more focused on rec's than now. That will be ok too. And I doubt we will see two certain names on the online lists).

Anyway, I ask again, and THEESE ARE THE QUESTIONS TO ANSWER: What do you intend to do with the not quite as good cheated pb's down the lists? Or do you really believe there are no more than theese two cheaters? Are you satisfied when only theese two persons are banned? Where do you stop? Is it ok with cheaters as long as they are not good enough to make trouble for the very best of the players? As long as they place themself a little bit down the record lists so that it is not quite so obvious?

I hate to see cheating just as much as anyone here. The problem is just that things are a bit more complicated than simply to ban two persons and live happily ever after when you start thinking about it.

(EDIT):

DONT BEHAVE LIKE INVESTIGATING A CRIME, ITS ONLY A GAME.

No, it's not only a game, it's about real people who has bought and paid for a product (the game) at a company. They actually have legal rights. So we're talking real life here, not only a game. Please try to see this also in connection to the questions I ask above, and think about what happens if one begins to move into a gray zone to find the next best cheaters, who, after a while, may have appeared. (If they are not here allready). How to distinguish them from the best non-cheating jumpers and avoid accusing innocent people??

[Cvetko Stanisa]

[quote="Jan Cihosky"]I had enough. OPEN YOUR EYES JUSSI!

You know why we play your game?

Because we can compete. The 8 new hills have been a breath of fresh air. We had a unique opportunity to fight for the world record. This Friday has been exciting.
AND THEN *** JALUVKA APPEARS ONCE AGAIN AND SCREWS THE WHOLE GAME UP. I CANNOT WITHSTAND THIS! DON'T YOU SEE IT? ISN'T IT CLEAR FOR
YOU???? LOOK AT THE METERS! LOOK AT IT!!!!
]

Jan and all other players? Why almost all good players have stop to play DSJ? Because we have'nt agree with "philosophy" of Jussi and all new version after 3.1.4! If your're not satisfied with this version, do the same, stop to play! And if you do not stop - then is'nt so bad! Or it is?

And just my small opinion about new version, just one of more hundred other opinions. I see just small technical problem but another reason why I will not come back - not in this version! In 3.1.6 I can have my registered version on any time by me on my USB key and it was possible to play my own registered version with all my files (ski jumpers, saved jumps,...) where i want, on all possible computers direct over USB key. It was nice and practical to put USB key in the computer and start to play, no instalation, no registration needed and after the end of play no tracks of the game on the computer, you have all new results on your key and you can go home. Now on 3.1.7 all new results, jumps,... are saved automaticly (by default) on the hard disk and not on USB key. We have with Jussi discus about that , why he has do this, but I don't like this and i will waiting on - I don't know version 3.1.8 or 3.2 or 4, maybe version 3.1.7.1


P.S.
Sevo, nice to see your name here!

[Grufugl]

Why almost all good players have stop to play DSJ?

Have really so many players left or is that a myth?
1. Some come, some go – that’s only natural even if a game is ever so good.
2. A lot of players only jump during winter season. In january/february 2008 we had several tournaments with more than 100 players participating. This winter season has just begun, I’m sure we’ll see such figures again.
3. I believe that actually a lot of old slowdowners quitted when the old lists were deleted. Most of them never ever played online either. Who misses them?

[Cvetko Stanisa]

Why almost all good players have stop to play DSJ?

Most of them never ever played online either. Who misses them?

Agree - because on-line playing have total other "philosophy" / goal for playing! By on-line playing is goal to jump better as other, thats mean long enough and with telemark, by of-line is gaol to jump damn it and extrem long jump whats mean very high risk for chrash - whats mean by on-line bad result in total classification! OK? Beleve me i have try booth version offline and online - you can find my name (after 1,5 year) on place 732 and 984 in world league- online!

And to your first question - yes, that was so many players, like example at a time have stopped to play 22 from Top 30 World league / cup scores - and a lot of other players too! - this was our protest to Sevo-bug (and this was not our first time, the same was at the end of DSJ2, also our protest and request for fix of some very clear bugs!)

[Jussi Koskela]

And to your first question - yes, that was so many players, like example at a time have stopped to play 22 from Top 30 World league / cup scores - and a lot of other players too! - this was our protest to Sevo-bug (and this was not our first time, the same was at the end of DSJ2, also our protest and request for fix of some very clear bugs!)

Hmm.. I must have missed these protests. If you are talking about people who used slowdown and stopped playing when it was not possible any more, then that's another issue. Believe me, even then it was a small minority that used these programs.

[Cvetko Stanisa]

Hmm.. I must have missed these protests. If you are talking about people who used slowdown and stopped playing when it was not possible any more, then that's another issue. Believe me, even then it was a small minority that used these programs.

Yes, you have missed our protest! If I know you're registered on http://dsj.airco.com.pl Find topic "What the hell ...." under "English forum" and read your own e-mails!
But Jussi at least this is your game - who will play this can play, who will not, this will (like I) wait for new version!

[Severin]

Who misses the players like Roman Karwat, Matej Novak, Drazen Feric?

i do, a lot to be honest...
it was the community since the beginning, and it was quite a fun to have a stock of people who played the game for this long time... but you can't change it anyway...

[Cvetko Stanisa]

Who misses the players like Roman Karwat, Matej Novak, Drazen Feric?

i do, a lot to be honest...
it was the community since the beginning, and it was quite a fun to have a stock of people who played the game for this long time... but you can't change it anyway...

Thanks Sevo!