Higher Wind and Flying Positions

[Stigi]

What you think, would be cool to have wind up to 5ms. Like in practise settings you could change wind between 2ms. Like 1.4ms-3.4ms or 3ms-5ms. And if wind suddenly changes skis starts moving alot and it is more difficult to handle, that would make game more interesting and more fun.

And change between 3 or maybe 5 diffrent flying postions would be amazing! Style of Romöeren, Koch, Schlierenzauer etc.. And there would be a picture of that position, just some simple picture. And u could change cpu's preformen's between Jump, Style, Fly, Certitude. And diffrent fly positions have a certain changebility.

So comment what you like these ideas, and Jussi can u tell are these ideas possible to come over in future? (I used translate, sorry for bad english)

[Jussi Koskela]

It's not possible to calculate the air resistance that precisely. There's already months of tweaking to get one jumping style balanced and fun to play.

[Mario Kickmayer]

Jussi, i don´t want to make you much random work so close before the next release (:D), but is it possible to include Stigi`s suggestion with the wind (just in Training) or do you think it is too much work?

[m00nchile]

Since you already replied in this thread Jussi, it was suggested that ski flying styles could be purely cosmetic, and an invisible model of the current style would be used for physics. Would that be plausible? Since all calculations would still be done on a model that's the same for everyone you wouldn't have to worry about balancing the styles and you wouldn't need to do the calculations and tweaking again.

[Metsi]

Since you already replied in this thread Jussi, it was suggested that ski flying styles could be purely cosmetic, and an invisible model of the current style would be used for physics. Would that be plausible? Since all calculations would still be done on a model that's the same for everyone you wouldn't have to worry about balancing the styles and you wouldn't need to do the calculations and tweaking again.

Don't you think that each style uses different wind and air pressure? If we want this to be a good simulation of a real ski jumping i think we should focus on tweaking one style of flight

[Stigi]

But its boring if allways same position, like in flying hills position should be much lower.

[Jussi Koskela]

Since you already replied in this thread Jussi, it was suggested that ski flying styles could be purely cosmetic, and an invisible model of the current style would be used for physics. Would that be plausible? Since all calculations would still be done on a model that's the same for everyone you wouldn't have to worry about balancing the styles and you wouldn't need to do the calculations and tweaking again.

That's not a feasible solution. If the physics is separated from the actual view you'll lose the control of the jump.

[Basadoni]

Since you already replied in this thread Jussi, it was suggested that ski flying styles could be purely cosmetic, and an invisible model of the current style would be used for physics. Would that be plausible? Since all calculations would still be done on a model that's the same for everyone you wouldn't have to worry about balancing the styles and you wouldn't need to do the calculations and tweaking again.

That's not a feasible solution. If the physics is separated from the actual view you'll lose the control of the jump.

It's really a pity, because other flying positions would give the game a wonderful optical variation.
And there is really no other solution for this?

[Metsi]

Imagine a racing game, that has the same steering characteristics for small racing cars and big trucks. Would you really fully enjoy the game then?

[Stigi]

It's like Trash truck turns as fast as F1 or something like that...

[Risen]

Imagine a racing game, that has the same steering characteristics for small racing cars and big trucks. Would you really fully enjoy the game then?

Yes. I never cared about realism but how playable the game is. Sadly, nowadays there is too much freaking realism I can feel by myself or watch in TV / YouTube. Playability is on the second place, what's indeed a failure. Games should work on imagination, keep us willing to still achieve more, don't discourage by too big difficulty when loses are annoying and don't discourage by too little difficulty, when wins are devalued.

[Metsi]

Imagine a racing game, that has the same steering characteristics for small racing cars and big trucks. Would you really fully enjoy the game then?

Yes. I never cared about realism but how playable the game is. Sadly, nowadays there is too much freaking realism I can feel by myself or watch in TV / YouTube. Playability is on the second place, what's indeed a failure. Games should work on imagination, keep us willing to still achieve more, don't discourage by too big difficulty when loses are annoying and don't discourage by too little difficulty, when wins are devalued.

I think you misunderstood me a bit.
You see, the whole point of this game is making it as close to real ski jumping conditions as possible.
So we need the jumper to look and behave as he was facing reall wind and air preassure. Period.
Making a few different graphic models that would use the same wind/pressure processor would be actually poitnless in this matter.
If we want different styles/positions we would have to give Jussi 2-3 years to work only on them (as i suppose) to make them work according to physic laws,

I agree that games should tease your imagination and force some creativity, but i think we've all setteled a long time ago that DSJ is aiming for ski jumping simulator, not a ski jumping arcade game

[Risen]

I am perfectly fine with making this close to real ski jumping, but... when I'm thinking now, it already is, just because the flight position is the same all the time.

We can control only mouse here, vertically, maybe horizontally in the future, but not hundreds of muscles in the body. Ski jumping style is something, that's getting "coded" in the minds of juniors. There may be one, universal, ultimate aerodynamic position, but every jumper can find himself in the best control of some variation of it. That's why we have so much of them. Jacobsen spreads his arms, Janda lies on the skis, Romoeren uses pararrel style, etc. They are habits, that coaches try to correct over time, but can't really, because everyone is different.

Now, in Deluxe Ski Jump, every jumper has equal parameters, so there is no need to consider weight, weight of particular body parts, height, power in the muscles or agility. The jumper hasn't also childhood, to learn ski jumping from the scratch. If you want different flight positions to be realistic, there have to be these differences. Look at the in-game jumper as at the same person with different names, jumping all over the game. His flight style must be the same as he always has the same parameters and the same coded (by Jussi, not by growing up and training) optimized position, to achieve the most.

It is already done.

+ what I said about games is a general rule. Doesn't matter if DSJ is aiming for ski jumping simulator, arcade game, MMORPG or trading card game. It still must be enjoyable and setting a neverending goal, be not discouraging nor boring. That's the whole art of making games. Being technically well is not enough, there has to be spirit and balance. That's important to remember.

Sorry for mazes of text, my mind is full of fcuk :p

[MattyPolz14]

What you think, would be cool to have wind up to 5ms. Like in practise settings you could change wind between 2ms. Like 1.4ms-3.4ms or 3ms-5ms. And if wind suddenly changes skis starts moving alot and it is more difficult to handle, that would make game more interesting and more fun.

And change between 3 or maybe 5 diffrent flying postions would be amazing! Style of Romöeren, Koch, Schlierenzauer etc.. And there would be a picture of that position, just some simple picture. And u could change cpu's preformen's between Jump, Style, Fly, Certitude. And diffrent fly positions have a certain changebility.

So comment what you like these ideas, and Jussi can u tell are these ideas possible to come over in future? (I used translate, sorry for bad english)

I think that's a great idea. The difference in flight style would affect the distance due to the wind in flight. I am a ski jumper and gusts can really suck. that would make it a lot more challenging in the game and that would be awesome. Also due to different types of hills, like ski flying hills you would have to go more direct and large hills you wuldn't have to push on top too quickly and normal hills not as much.

By the way the english wasn't that bad