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Re: Online changes
Posted: 26 Dec 2022, 12:27
by Jussi Koskela
Additional tournaments
Possible. Especially the Normal Hills Tournament sounds like a nice idea.
Wind conditions
The last change to wind algorithm was done on April 2011 for DSJ4 Beta-2, and I am not aware of anything that would have changed the behavior of winds since that. Whether there should have been changes towards better (or controllable) winds is another question.
Having constantly good winds is naturally nice if you are simply hunting for the hill records, but that will make the tournaments more monotonous/boring.
Re: Online changes
Posted: 26 Dec 2022, 17:10
by MikesCZ
Jussi Koskela wrote: ↑26 Dec 2022, 12:27
Additional tournaments
Possible. Especially the Normal Hills Tournament sounds like a nice idea.
Yes please
Jussi Koskela wrote: ↑26 Dec 2022, 12:27
Wind conditions
The last change to wind algorithm was done on April 2011 for DSJ4 Beta-2, and I am not aware of anything that would have changed the behavior of winds since that. Whether there should have been changes towards better (or controllable) winds is another question.
Having constantly good winds is naturally nice if you are simply hunting for the hill records, but that will make the tournaments more monotonous/boring.
Pure record hunt mode is probably better suited for offline game. I can understand you are careful regarding online game as changes can have negative financial side effects (less online keys purchased). BUT at the same time there is big potential to increase sales if you manage to make the online mode more fun and give players more reasons to play online instead of offline.
People like competitive online games. I have lot of ideas in my head, some I already wrote about, but here is quick summary:
- Better private server support (like configuring cups via UI)
- More tournaments
- More tournament modes
- ability to create online club (like in real life, "tj wisla zakopane")
- More incentives for online play (leaderboards, more statistics, achievements, many more...)
- Better online play coverage on mediamond website (tournament coverage, more statistics, leaderboards etc....can all be tied together, you click on player name in tournament results and get to the player page with bunch of stats)
Main goal of mine is to bring more players to online servers...not only for scheduled tournaments, but especially for the rest of the day where servers are usually empty and get maybe 10-20 players in one server at most.
Re: Online changes
Posted: 27 Dec 2022, 11:42
by SoBo
Jussi Koskela wrote: ↑26 Dec 2022, 12:27
Additional tournaments
Possible. Especially the Normal Hills Tournament sounds like a nice idea.
The 32 normal hills tournament is a 100% perfect idea.
About wind conditions, what do you not understand?
When was the last time you played online?
Please Understand !
I played together with Mariusz Paweł yesterday, we played 2 x 24 Official Hills, and nonstop on 6 hills we had back wind around 2m.You think we had fun? Monday evening, no tournaments but about 50 people play with us, but they leave systematically, keep writing thanks to Jussi and memes another one "WR wind".Explain to me, no changes zero WR winds over 50 hills, but at 50% max backwind.Nobody requires, Online wind improvements for WR, but at least to restore what was for years, you have to understand it.
Re: Online changes
Posted: 27 Dec 2022, 12:15
by Xinitiao
It seems to me like you just want a custom serwer for online record hunting with friends - the only thing missing is the custom serwer ui.
Re: Online changes
Posted: 28 Dec 2022, 20:40
by Milosz Michalak
Xinitiao wrote: ↑27 Dec 2022, 12:15
It seems to me like you just want a custom serwer for online record hunting with friends - the only thing missing is the custom serwer ui.
You seem to be making unplayable hills
Re: Online changes
Posted: 28 Dec 2022, 23:50
by Xinitiao
Milosz Michalak wrote: ↑28 Dec 2022, 20:40
Xinitiao wrote: ↑27 Dec 2022, 12:15
It seems to me like you just want a custom serwer for online record hunting with friends - the only thing missing is the custom serwer ui.
You seem to be making unplayable hills
Especially this year
You want a custom server too? :>
Re: Online changes
Posted: 29 Dec 2022, 10:57
by Jussi Koskela
This chart depicts the initial wind of each jump on the World Cup - Official DSJ4 Hills between December 12th and 29th.
The distribution looks as expected and does not show any bias towards tail winds.
I guess that the discussion about bad winds stems once again about the fact that there's only small area on the left side of the chart that is suitable for beating the world records and all other winds are considered bad.
Re: Online changes
Posted: 29 Dec 2022, 11:33
by Mariusz Paweł
Jussi Koskela wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 10:57
This chart depicts the initial wind of each jump on the World Cup - Official DSJ4 Hills between December 12th and 29th.
The distribution looks as expected and does not show any bias towards tail winds.
I guess that the discussion about bad winds stems once again about the fact that there's only small area on the left side of the chart that is suitable for beating the world records and all other winds are considered bad.
Please go jump 3-5 seasons online, you will understand the aspect of this topic. No one here is asking for a 2.0-2.5 upwind (wr winds), just that the ratio of winds in the field is similar in the other direction. It can't be that I jump 5 seasons (160 hills) and 5% are max 0.0-1.8 upwind, 20-30% are crosswinds (and it's ok that it's like that), and rest 65+-% are tailwinds - mostly 2.0+, none of you will play that many seasons because everyone won't make it one season with those conditions.
This topic is meant under the wr aspect, and was created to increase the online appeal ( more online players ). As I mentioned go in and play 5 seasons one day with your customers then maybe instead of charts you will understand the problem of low number of players. Everyone who speaks against it here is either not online at all or jumps 3 hills because he won't play the whole season because of the conditions
.
PS.
Daily tournaments from 16 to 24 hills (small, large, mammoth) have been proposed. On Thursdays, 2v2/3v3/4v4 team tournaments with a choice of players to increase competition and a break from the classic teamcup. Unfortunately the topic has not been commented on by you. You threw in an old-school tournament on Tuesday - ok, but we are waiting for daily tournaments all week of half the size of the classic Wednesday/Saturday/Sunday tournaments.
Re: Online changes
Posted: 29 Dec 2022, 12:22
by Jussi Koskela
Mariusz Paweł wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 11:33
It can't be that I jump 5 seasons (160 hills) and 5% are max 0.0-1.8 upwind, 20-30% are crosswinds (and it's ok that it's like that), and rest 65+-% are tailwinds - mostly 2.0+, none of you will play that many seasons because everyone won't make it one season with those conditions.
Hmm.. But the chart shows with lots of lots of jumps that there's no bias towards tailwinds. It's collected from the actual jumps for feeding the CPU AI.
Re: Online changes
Posted: 29 Dec 2022, 12:51
by Xinitiao
Jussi Koskela wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 10:57
I guess that the discussion about bad winds stems once again about the fact that there's only small area on the left side of the chart that is suitable for beating the world records and all other winds are considered bad.
For world records it's even worse - on many hills you need to roll a 2.2-2.5 frontwind for a gate that has a max avg frontwind of 1.7 or 1.8 -> not all the winds on the very left of the chart have a wr potential.
Mariusz Paweł wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 11:33
65+-% are tailwinds - mostly 2.0+, none of you will play that many seasons because everyone won't make it one season with those conditions.
Either you had a really bad run on the rng, or wildly exaggerating. Looking at the chart, you must have rolled one week's worth of 2.0+ tailwinds in one sitting
Re: Online changes
Posted: 29 Dec 2022, 13:30
by MikesCZ
Mariusz Paweł wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 11:33
. Everyone who speaks against it here is either not online at all or jumps 3 hills because he won't play the whole season because of the conditions
I am not against, but how do you know everyone leaves online due to tail winds? I think it's more about the nature of nonstop cups...only handful of players start from the cup beginning, most people join during the cup and as the final results don't matter at all, people tend to come and leave as they like. There is no reward in playing the whole cup. Some players also might get bored and want to switch to another cup (from WC to flying, or fictional or whatever). The non stop cups are more like practice mode, they are not taken as seriously as the scheduled tournament.
If tweaking the wind distribution few % towards the "good wind" side has the effect of more players staying in the online game, then I'd be happy too, as online is my preferred playstyle.
I am just not sure if it' as simple as that
Re: Online changes
Posted: 29 Dec 2022, 14:08
by Jussi Koskela
Normal Hills Tournament added to DSJ4 Online:
viewtopic.php?p=82294#p82294