Deluxe Ski Jump Forum

Added Brotterode HS117, Lake Placid HS128, Erzurum HS140, Hinzenbach HS90, Štrbské Pleso HS100, Brattleboro HS98 and Winterberg-HS87. Replaced Wisła HS134 with new version. Updated odds for all hills.

These changes will be in effect starting March 9th, 2024.

The servers (non-stop and scheduled) have now these changes in effect. So, today's Team Cup and Normal Hills Tournament on Friday will already be competed with the new set of hills.

We should change the tournament system in WoT. I propose dividing it into 3 categories:
Bronze / Rating: 0-999
Silver / Rating: 1000-1400
Gold / Rating: 1401-9999
This will give weaker players a reason to train in the DSJ and advance to higher leagues.

+ Super Team Tournaments

+ The selection of competitors for team events also requires changes. Ski jumpers should be paired based on their ranking. For example, if there are 32 participants, the first team should consist of competitors ranked first, ninth, seventeenth, and twenty-fifth. Each subsequent team should be formed in the same way (Team 2 - 2nd, 10th, 18th, 26th / Team 3 - 3rd, 11th, 19th, 27th / etc.).

Isn't World Cup B enough?

*Practice makes perfect - just some motivation and training hard *

ignorancik wrote: ↑26 Mar 2024, 01:09 We should change the tournament system in WoT. I propose dividing it into 3 categories:
Bronze / Rating: 0-999
Silver / Rating: 1000-1400
Gold / Rating: 1401-9999
This will give weaker players a reason to train in the DSJ and advance to higher leagues.

+ Super Team Tournaments

+ The selection of competitors for team events also requires changes. Ski jumpers should be paired based on their ranking. For example, if there are 32 participants, the first team should consist of competitors ranked first, ninth, seventeenth, and twenty-fifth. Each subsequent team should be formed in the same way (Team 2 - 2nd, 10th, 18th, 26th / Team 3 - 3rd, 11th, 19th, 27th / etc.).

not enough players in DSJ imo...you have two categories now already

MikesCZ wrote: ↑26 Mar 2024, 10:40 not enough players in DSJ imo...you have two categories now already

Nothing changes in the game, the same people keep winning, that's why people leave.

ignorancik wrote: ↑26 Mar 2024, 14:36

MikesCZ wrote: ↑26 Mar 2024, 10:40 not enough players in DSJ imo...you have two categories now already

Nothing changes in the game, the same people keep winning, that's why people leave.

True. It has been proposed many times to introduce some new cool tournaments (full knockout, king of the hill, precision cup, super teams etc etc.), some new fresh air. Knockout cup is the most realistic of them and there is always chance for average player to beat the best player by luck (the favorite can fall or mess up their jump, while the underdog performs well)

MikesCZ wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 09:49

ignorancik wrote: ↑26 Mar 2024, 14:36

MikesCZ wrote: ↑26 Mar 2024, 10:40 not enough players in DSJ imo...you have two categories now already

Nothing changes in the game, the same people keep winning, that's why people leave.

True. It has been proposed many times to introduce some new cool tournaments (full knockout, king of the hill, precision cup, super teams etc etc.), some new fresh air. Knockout cup is the most realistic of them and there is always chance for average player to beat the best player by luck (the favorite can fall or mess up their jump, while the underdog performs well)

IMHO the biggest problem in the game right now is that the game is catering too much to the so-called top players, so any idea that even slightly increases the chances of not-best players ever winning gets immediately shot down. So the top players keep grinding while less talented players or players with less time to spend on grinding eventually get bored of always fighting for 50th place. This focus on top players is why:

• all tournaments except sunday special are played on the same subset of hills

• Most 'real' hills are set so only the top players in best conditions are able to consistently jump over hs

• Overwhelming majority of players cant reach the real hill records which they see beaten on tv

• Any custom hill with remotely challenging profile or one on which you need to adjust your flying style gets immediately shot down

• Etc

It's the same reason why we can't have record hunting mode added or gibbon removed.

ignorancik wrote: ↑26 Mar 2024, 01:09 We should change the tournament system in WoT. I propose dividing it into 3 categories:
Bronze / Rating: 0-999
Silver / Rating: 1000-1400
Gold / Rating: 1401-9999
This will give weaker players a reason to train in the DSJ and advance to higher leagues.
...

That probably wouldn't change much. The problem is rather the calculation method.

Recently I (rating ~1100) played 24 hills against a single ~1200 opponent.
Rating difference 100 means a change per competition / hill of 0.36 or 0.64:
He (1200) wins: he +0.36 and me -0.36 points.
I (1100) win: me +0.64 and he -0.64 points.

This time he won 22 competitions and I won 2. A normal result, only a few mistakes on both sides.

Luckily for me it was just a "Warm-up – No Rating" session. Otherwise I would have lost about 6.64 rating points (7.92 - 1.28).
I should have won 9 of 24 competitions to keep my rating. That's impossible – the skill level difference between average 1200 and average 1100 players is too big for that.

Lately i usually avoid participating in tournaments like Tour de DSJ, because too many players with ratings of more than 1300, 1400, 1500 etc. take part in it, mostly experienced Gibbon-players. I can only lose here (not only practically every competition, but also in terms of rating).
On flying hills 1400 or 1500 can even afford a fall in one of two jumps and will still often be ahead against 1100.

I can only speak for my own area against opponents up to 1150, where I am competitive when I'm in shape. I don't know if 1400 would stand a better chance against 1800 than 1100 against 1200.

But I think a splitting in a 1000 - 1400 category would not help at all. That is too rough a classification for casual players and there are too few players at present for a finer division.

Xinitiao wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 14:56

MikesCZ wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 09:49

ignorancik wrote: ↑26 Mar 2024, 14:36

Nothing changes in the game, the same people keep winning, that's why people leave.

True. It has been proposed many times to introduce some new cool tournaments (full knockout, king of the hill, precision cup, super teams etc etc.), some new fresh air. Knockout cup is the most realistic of them and there is always chance for average player to beat the best player by luck (the favorite can fall or mess up their jump, while the underdog performs well)

IMHO the biggest problem in the game right now is that the game is catering too much to the so-called top players, so any idea that even slightly increases the chances of not-best players ever winning gets immediately shot down. So the top players keep grinding while less talented players or players with less time to spend on grinding eventually get bored of always fighting for 50th place. This focus on top players is why:

• all tournaments except sunday special are played on the same subset of hills

• Most 'real' hills are set so only the top players in best conditions are able to consistently jump over hs

• Overwhelming majority of players cant reach the real hill records which they see beaten on tv

• Any custom hill with remotely challenging profile or one on which you need to adjust your flying style gets immediately shot down

• Etc

It's the same reason why we can't have record hunting mode added or gibbon removed.

Well, in all competitive games there will be these top players. DSJ is skill intensive so better player will win in the long run, you cant really "solve" that.

One way how to improve the situation would be option to host your own scheduled cup on private server...then you can make your own rules, your own cup, and bend the rules a bit so that it's more interesting than the usual Q-1st round-final round

Custom tournaments can basically make DSJ a bit more "e-sport" platform. And mediamond would collect the yearly fees for private servers and online keys of course.

MikesCZ wrote: ↑28 Mar 2024, 21:46 Well, in all competitive games there will be these top players. DSJ is skill intensive so better player will win in the long run, you cant really "solve" that.

It's not a problem though. The problem is that if I play with for example Tom, he'd beat me on small hills server iirc 18 to 6 while on WOT hills he'd beat me 23-1 or 24-0. And it's way more fun for me when I have at least some chance of winning. And when I play with someone weaker than me, getting 24-0 or 23-1 is boring for me too. And since the majority of online servers and tournaments use only WOT hills...