Difference in wind

[Audun]

Hi

A litlle suggestion to the online wind.

Just a little basic info about wind online first:
- The wind starts almost equal for all, the ones who are close together in the startingorder gets very equal wind.
- Right after you begin to jump (when the screen change from chat to the hill), it's random how the wind becomes.

After having played DSJ-online for some months now, I've experienced that the wind is very importante in a jump, and that it can be very different for each player. I think that it is to much different, and that luck counts way to much. I'm not one of those who are againts that the wind are there at all, don't take me wrong, it's more realistic and fun with having wind which is a bit different for all. I just think it's to much difference, and in my oppinion there should be more even wind for all.

Let's say the wind is 1 m/s front in the beginning of a jump. It can then easily fly up to 2-3 m/s in the front, or it can just as easily turn around and be 1 m/s in the back. The difference between these 2 scenarios is huge. If they turn out to be the same length, then the jump with the bad wind is so extremly much better then the other one. It's like the difference between an average jump by an average jumper and a WR.

Ofcourse, in the end people will have just as much good/bad wind. It's just that let's say I get lucky wind in SLO in my first jump, and jump 290m, and are a bit unlucky in the next, and jump 270m, although the last one is much better. People then think that 290m is a very good jump, but that I "fell through" in the last one, and that I missed a good result there, when it actually where the first jump that was the worst...

A few suggestions to what can be done:
- Lower the chance the wind have to change, and that it change less.
- Make a wind-corridor, like that it can't increase/decrease more then 0.7-0.8 m/s


Hope something will be done about it. It's a bit boring that (in a big tournament) a jump that could have been top10 with normal wind got spoiled by bad wind, and that he/she didn't then make it to the final...

Vote on the poll, so Jussi can see what others then me mean about the case!

[Frode]

I`ve spent my last 25+ years as hillcrew and the wind who is set in this game is not realistic at all. The winddirection and speed varies too much.
The game is too good and realictic to be destroyed by this. Fix it and we will start talking about "reality games"

[Jani Oravisjärvi]

I agree that it could be better. Sometimes it is strange to jump with weak or average wind and then see that at same time someone else jumps something like my hill record...

Especially in biggest hills luck is little bit too important. It's very difficult to do even ok jump when wind changes to back wind. And at same time someone others jump huge lenghts with nice wind conditions. I also think that wind changes are part of ski jumping but maybe it effects even too much in DSJ?

[Torsten]

Audun, Frode, Jani: Full ACK!!

"Realistic" would be (in my opinion ) for example:
Wind on top of the hill: 2,0 m/s
Wind at the jump-off platform: 1,0 m/s
Wind at the landing Zone: -1,0 m/s

All of these winds got these values at the starting of the 15sec-Countdown. After that they may change a little bit, maybe like this:
Wind on top of the hill: 2,3 m/s
Wind at the jump-off platform: 0,7 m/s
Wind at the landing Zone: -0,3 m/s

But for that Jussi would have to calculate winds for every point of the hill and has the show the wind at the jumpers actual position, what may be very difficult to implement

[Frode]

In reality if you had 4,2 ms sidewind in a hill where you jump 160+m you would have landed in the public area. I`ve seen that problem even in small hils.
4,2ms streetch flag,bend trees so its a bit of an overkill in this game.

When I comment this it is on my own opinion about what is giving the game the realistic touch. Ofcourse many says its just a game so why bother?. Well its only the wind that gives the rest of the game a big minus.

I`ve played with 2 computers and 2 accounts side by side and in one hill I got 3,7ms wind in front and on the other pc I got 2,8ms behind in the same hill at the same time.

Thats too much variation.

[Audun]

Torsten: Agree with you there, it's more realistic that the wind isn't all the same in the whole hill at the same time... But, as you mentioned, it may be hard for Jussi to implement that.

[Vid]

I agree with everything written above. The wind varies too much and the wind corridor would be the best solution.

But nevertheless, playing online for 4 months now, in tournaments, there are almost no surprises in the top 10 rankings even now, when luck is a big big factor. There are about 20 players who will always be near the top, regardless of the wind conditions they get.

So I think for now consistency is the key to win a tournament - even if you have bad wind on the first jump, you still can get lucky in 2nd and improve very much. After 32 hills it becomes clear that if you generally made good jumps in every conditions you got, you will be on the top!

Just imagine, how much better this competition would be if there was a wind corridor with let's say +/- 1.5 wind

But until then, the way to be succesful is just to stay concentrated ....

[Janiel74]

I totally agree!!! It would be necessary to do something like corridor!

[sajdor]

I agree in 1000000000 % oh man how many times i had a bad wind and I scored a good jump. really good jump and I was veeery happy until I saw the standings and my jaw just opened when I saw results close to my hill record, truth is that only fair way to compet in tournaments is fair wind( same for everyone). Thats the real competition, only then I can say that I was the best if I win, in other case Its impossible

[Audun]

@Jussi

So, now you have seen what many people think about the wind variation online, and that more then 50% have voted for "Yes, way to much", while only 12% think it's fine as it is, and none thinks it varies to little... If you could tell us what you thought about this, then that would be great. Are you planning on doing something about it? Do you want to wait a bit for more people to write here about their oppinions? Are you currently busy with something else? I don't think I'm the only one who are curious about what you have in your mind...

[Ivelak]

@Jussi

So, now you have seen what many people think about the wind variation online, and that more then 50% have voted for "Yes, way to much", while only 12% think it's fine as it is, and none thinks it varies to little...

Hi!
18 players of thousends is not very much. I think that it is good that wind is a little different to jumpers, so also weaker players (as I) can sometimes get plus ranking points in tournaments!!

[Thomas]

@Jussi

So, now you have seen what many people think about the wind variation online, and that more then 50% have voted for "Yes, way to much", while only 12% think it's fine as it is, and none thinks it varies to little...

Hi!
18 players of thousends is not very much. I think that it is good that wind is a little different to jumpers, so also weaker players (as I) can sometimes get plus ranking points in tournaments!!

Actually it's 18 out of 20 (now 19 out of 21). Not everybody who are playing this game has read this thread, and there is also a lot of people who aren't aware that the wind changes in the way it does.

The problem that Audun brings up is a serious problem. This whole wind matter was serious enough for me to stop playing the game. I haven't been here for a while, and I'm glad to see that more people are recognizing this issue as a problem. I won't be playing this game again until the problem is dealt with (I see myself as too young to be a bingo player).

[Grufugl]

The problem that Audun brings up is a serious problem. This whole wind matter was serious enough for me to stop playing the game. I haven't been here for a while, and I'm glad to see that more people are recognizing this issue as a problem. I won't be playing this game again until the problem is dealt with (I see myself as too young to be a bingo player).

Eh... isn't this to take both the game and yourself a bit too serious?

[Grufugl]

A few suggestions to what can be done:
- Lower the chance the wind have to change, and that it change less.
- Make a wind-corridor, like that it can't increase/decrease more then 0.7-0.8 m/s

If such changes are done, then the possibility of making record jumps is also reduced, since the very best conditions are when the wind steadily increases during the jump, maybe from say 2,5 m/s up to 4,0 m/s into the hill.

And can the proposed changes be done for the online game only, or will it have to affect the offline game too? (I don't know, but I guess the actual jump in the online game is really done offline?)

[Thomas]

The problem that Audun brings up is a serious problem. This whole wind matter was serious enough for me to stop playing the game. I haven't been here for a while, and I'm glad to see that more people are recognizing this issue as a problem. I won't be playing this game again until the problem is dealt with (I see myself as too young to be a bingo player).

Eh... isn't this to take both the game and yourself a bit too serious?

It's serious within the game in a sense that it's an issue that affects the game a lot in a negative way. It's not serious like peace discussions in the Middle East, but that's not we're talking about.

The theoretic solution to the issue is very simple: Make the wind change EQUALLY for everyone, then talent will that much more important when everybody is jumping under equal conditions. People will whine about taking away an element of realism, but f--- that! It's a game! If they could make the wind perfectly equal for everyone in real life ski jumping, then they would do it!