Deluxe Ski Jump Forum

Q&A Friday has ended. We know very much information about next version so please stop questions to Jussi, he must doing game, so next questions = later full. Is this true Jussi?

cruzzz112 wrote:Q&A Friday has ended. We know very much information about next version so please stop questions to Jussi, he must doing game, so next questions = later full. Is this true Jussi?

Yes, and you were asking a question yourself, too.

Jussi, maybe you change Q4/2011,to December 2011? This month is the most probaly relase date

Jussi Koskela wrote:There won't be CPU players in the first version. So far, I don't have a clear vision how they should be implemented (there are a few alternatives, but different players seem to prefer different kind of CPU players, i.e. visible/non-visible jump, real (slow) simulation, statistical (fast) simulation.

Now that's a bummer

I didn't read any further, cos CPU jumpers are the one thing that I'm missing most. Actually, the game won't be a full version in my book when there are no CPU jumpers. It's still gonna be "me against myself", which reads beta in my book. I've already bought the game though once the beta was out and I can wait ...

In regards to those two different ways of implementing CPU jumpers: The magic word is "option". Simply make the way the CPU jumpers are simulated an option. Players can choose between slow simulation with the possibility of watching the CPU jumpers' jumps and fast simulation. I understand that you're having difficulties implementing the slow option, but then again the game will have to see patches anyway. Simply start with the fast simulation first since that one is more straight forward and only a simple mathematical equation. You can then add the slow simulation with a later patch. Do I make sense?

EyTschej wrote: In regards to those two different ways of implementing CPU jumpers: The magic word is "option". Simply make the way the CPU jumpers are simulated an option. Players can choose between slow simulation with the possibility of watching the CPU jumpers' jumps and fast simulation. I understand that you're having difficulties implementing the slow option, but then again the game will have to see patches anyway. Simply start with the fast simulation first since that one is more straight forward and only a simple mathematical equation. You can then add the slow simulation with a later patch. Do I make sense?

There's no simple mathematical equation which would generate realistic results. One of my ideas was to gather statistics from the online game (wind / rating / length) and use that data with a statistical model to generate the results for the CPU players, but this would require a remarkable number of jumps in the online game in each new hill before the CPU players could be included to that hill.

i have one small question: will be announcement one week before full version? ( like before dsj 3.1.7 )

Jussi Koskela wrote:There's no simple mathematical equation which would generate realistic results. One of my ideas was to gather statistics from the online game (wind / rating / length) and use that data with a statistical model to generate the results for the CPU players, but this would require a remarkable number of jumps in the online game in each new hill before the CPU players could be included to that hill.

Sometimes less is more - Jussi, your thinking is too complicated ...

Minimum requirements for that euqation:
- CPU jumper skill (e.g. values 1 to 10)
- K-point
- random value (e.g. 0.75 to 1.25)

Build an equation out of that and tweak the value ranges according to the test results. Forget about anything that screams "Hey, I'm super complicated, you'll get a Nobelprize if you implement me the right way!"

Even in the simplest form the wind/gate would need to be taken into account, so there would be plenty of tweaking to make the formula work in all the hills. It wouldn't be fun at all to jump if the CPU players can make results that are not possible or if they are not competitive enough in certain conditions.

You just got news a week ago. Stop asking. Think of it like that: 1 question -> 1 day later release of DSJ4

Jussi: There's gotta be a way! After all, DSJ4 beta is basically missing two things: new game modes and CPU jumpers. Sure, there are cosmetic changes and a different control system, but that's not a full new game in my book. There's gotte be more. You'll just have to figure it out. I'm staying tuned till you release the first patch.

Just one more question: What exactly was your aim for DSJ4 in the first place? Cos I'm starting to wonder if there is even any sense in waiting for what I would understand as a proper new full DSJ game when your vision of a new DSJ game is something totally different. Maybe there is nothing worth waiting for? Except for a Vista-compatible re-release of DSJ2, when there were still CPU jumpers whose results didn't take ages to show up ... and when there was a rewind function as part of the replay feature ... good old days ...

EyTschej wrote:Jussi: There's gotta be a way! After all, DSJ4 beta is basically missing two things: new game modes and CPU jumpers. Sure, there are cosmetic changes and a different control system, but that's not a full new game in my book. There's gotte be more. You'll just have to figure it out. I'm staying tuned till you release the first patch.

Just one more question: What exactly was your aim for DSJ4 in the first place? Cos I'm starting to wonder if there is even any sense in waiting for what I would understand as a proper new full DSJ game when your vision of a new DSJ game is something totally different. Maybe there is nothing worth waiting for? Except for a Vista-compatible re-release of DSJ2, when there were still CPU jumpers whose results didn't take ages to show up ... and when there was a rewind function as part of the replay feature ... good old days ...

Not everyone is so obsessed with CPU jumpers... Though I agree more game modes are needed, 10 years with the same old ones has gotten boring. And Jussi has already stated that rewinding replays would be almost impossible because of the way the physics simulation works in the game.

What other game modes ? theres nothing more than individual competitions and team competitions in Ski jumping.

@EyTschej - if you're saying that new, very realistic and complex jumping physics, free camera, new realistic, true to life ski hills, gate system, are not a new full game than what the heck would it take for a game to be new ???

bulwa11 wrote:What other game modes ? theres nothing more than individual competitions and team competitions in Ski jumping.

An idea: King of the Hill. 1 hill, 16 jumpers, 16 jumps & after every jumper had his five to seven seconds of airtime, one gets eliminated. Or maybe 16 random hills, 16 jumpers, 16 jumps and ...

Sure, DSJ is used to be realistic, but why not add some more fun - especially for the online mode?

EyTschej wrote:What exactly was your aim for DSJ4 in the first place? Cos I'm starting to wonder if there is even any sense in waiting for what I would understand as a proper new full DSJ game when your vision of a new DSJ game is something totally different. Maybe there is nothing worth waiting for? Except for a Vista-compatible re-release of DSJ2, when there were still CPU jumpers whose results didn't take ages to show up ... and when there was a rewind function as part of the replay feature ... good old days ...

Is rewind a huge function though? It's not really a game changer and if that bugs you so much I would be concerned about myself if I were you, no joke.

Yes, Jussi could add more game modes to the game. There is no doubt that this game is a part of a very niche game genre and adding different modes to DSJ would be a good way for Jussi to keep his audience coming back to the game I think, and if it's not done it would really be a missed opportunity.

First post \o/

Guys, focus!

The essence is still the records hunting... and that's what matters.
So long as Jussi won't cut the centimeters in the jumping distance I'm pretty laid back with the way things are going.