Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

[Xinitiao]

Severin meant Maciej Kot probably

I was talking about him too

[MikesCZ]

@Jussi - there is lot of new comments, including from two real ski jumpers - can we get your statement please?

[Martin Kafka]

Why is this suddenly an issue after more than 10 years? It has been there since day one. It's inherent part of physics. It was present in DSJ2 (and widely used), as well as in DSJ3, only not as pronounced due to somewhat stiffer physics. I don't recall such passionate discussions back then. I understand the removal of take-off bug (pre-v1.1 in DSJ3), slide bug and sevobug, because these had nothing to do with actually performing a jump, they only artificially extended length by exploiting vulnerabilites. The so-called gibbon is not an exploit per se. Even if you don't go for it on purpose, you still unintentionally use some of its mechanics on well executed jumps. Where do you draw the line between a 'clean' jump and an obvious gibbon attempt? This is very thin ice. I honestly don't care whether it stays or not, I'm just not surprised why Jussi may be hesitating in this case as the decision and matter at hand is not as clear-cut as it may seem.

[Xinitiao]

Slide bug has also been for around 10 years. I think the issue is that players who have come back / found dsj4 after 1.7 found out that they need gibbon to be competitive, while it looks very unrealistic and is tedious to perform.

[Severin]

Where do you draw the line between a 'clean' jump and an obvious gibbon attempt? This is very thin ice. I honestly don't care whether it stays or not, I'm just not surprised why Jussi may be hesitating in this case as the decision and matter at hand is not as clear-cut as it may seem.

Well, the line should be where it is in real life.
If you exert to much force on your skis, i.e. a too high angle at take off and then a too fast reaction towards the skis, your skis will react, the result a crash.
It has gotten better with the new bindings, but the basic logic is still the same.

I honestly don't know, if Jussi can implement a system where the game will realize a gibbon is done intently causing too much force on the bindings, skis and this would be the trigger to let the jumper crash. But to have a range where the mouse movement is slow and steady enough without movement changes where the jump will work and otherwise it's a crash would be the most realistic implementation...

[Jussi Koskela]

@Jussi - there is lot of new comments, including from two real ski jumpers - can we get your statement please?

I am still considering different options. Anti-gibbon system requires a reliable and credible change in physics which we don't have yet.

The main difference to reality arises from the overpowered and overcontrollable ankles in DSJ4. It had to be done that way, so that the jumping does not feel sloppy and the player feels being completely in control of the jump.

If anti-gibbon was implemented it would probably be based on detecting excess forces applied to bindings. Something that I already experimented and showed in the example video.

[Xinitiao]

If anti-gibbon was implemented it would probably be based on detecting excess forces applied to bindings.

If so, please make the jumper lose control without the skis falling off, something similar to those replays:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
(this effect can currently be achieved by landing after taking off from the dhill, but before judges manage to give style points)

[briskyten]

I think the removal of the gibbon, is a very good idea, it should be worked out calmly, without any rush, to be fine-tuned for next season already, or test no gibbon in the WOTs in the Summer.
whatsapp mod
watch tv series

[aleksiq4229]

Maybe its quite late for testing this in summer?
"to be fine-tuned for next season already, or test no gibbon in the WOTs in the Summer"
For this, Jussi should realase beta tests with changed physics, because normally it won't work.

[he10th3r310]

I'm surprised this is getting done... after like 10 years of waiting. Sad for all those who already did their records using gibbons lol. Though I said already when this started appearing, that it should be fixed, before I started to use it myself. But tbh I'm still unsure if it actually even helps to reach greater distances. But yea, it is not realistic, and if the game wants to be similar to real life, then this kind of shit must be fixed, there is no excuse to it.

Also fix slowmotion and save game cheat too. I think some kind of clock check is enough for both?

[aleksiq4229]

Sad for all those who already did their records using gibbons lol.

Something like that can exist too...
(Diffrent version records when physics were fixed)

[douglasadams]

Former ski jumper here and a long time DSJ player.

Even though using the gibbon technique is slightly controversial but in my opinion it adds a skill-based element to the game.
Without gibbon, successful jumps will almost entirely be just based on the timing and wind.

How gibbon works is that you basically try to achieve and maintain the maximum speed and height after takeoff - which is exactly how it works in real life as well. It may look slightly unrealistic but it gives a good variety to jumping as different hills also require different "gibbon" -technique. In my opinion it is far from being an exploit. It's more like a technique that requires skill to execute.
Learning and mastering gibbon is not the easiest thing to do and without it, the game wouldn't really require any sort of "skill". If gibbon is taken away, I think for many of us it will take the enjoyment out entirely of the game.

For record hunting and online play, it might be a different deal but I guess most of us play the game for our own enjoyment - we play offline trying to beat our own records and enjoy jumping alone or with friends.

[MikesCZ]

Gibbon is difficult and I while I personally would prefer to remove it from the game, I admire guys who can do it in online tourneys regularly. I learned it in offline modes and it improved my PBs, but in online I usually just jump regularly, I am not consistent enough to do gibbon in online cups.

the game wouldn't really require any sort of "skill"

This I don't agree with - there is so much you can do wrong in a single jump even without gibbon - it's not just timing on take off, the whole flight is as much important...you can do great takeoff but if you are tilted at slightly wrong angle or do more movements in the air than needed, your jump will not be great. And correct flight position differs per hill and you need to adjust during flight based on hill profile, but you know this very well I assume

If we look at the leaderboards and total lengths stats, we can see that even guys who jump without gibbon can be among the top 20 in the world, better than plenty of gibbon users.

[Mariusz Paweł]

Heikki lost with me on cheats so he is thinking now whatever can be in game - funny.
Michal Kala - believe me u are an amateur with any style or settings u dont nothing about this game xd
its about a years of training and doesnt matter how u doing it, always when i am on break and coming back to forum i have a lot of fun reading this pros tips and hints.
Just have fun from the game and stop complaining with things u cannot change.

[MikesCZ]

Heikki lost with me on cheats so he is thinking now whatever can be in game - funny.
Michal Kala - believe me u are an amateur with any style or settings u dont nothing about this game xd
its about a years of training and doesnt matter how u doing it, always when i am on break and coming back to forum i have a lot of fun reading this pros tips and hints.
Just have fun from the game and stop complaining with things u cannot change.

Yeah sure, I get it, you're the numero uno so everyone else is to be made fun of. Quite sad that top players of this game are so toxic.

u dont nothing about this game xd

I play DSJ series for more than 20 years. Cheers