Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

General discussion about DSJ4.
JanK
Posts: 21
Joined: 04 Dec 2021, 13:19

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by JanK »

We have tons of new hills, custom outfits, new tournaments. All those things are great but I definitely agree that implementing anti-gibbon mechanism would really be a big step forward. Even though I'm using gibbon currently and I have to admit that it helped me to improve my records significantly, there shouldn't be this kind of glitch in a game that has real-world physics in its description. Yes DSJ4 is quite old game but there are still lot of active players (with some real ski jumpers among us + new names coming in) so we should be still looking for some ways how to make this game better. I don't have the ability to fully determin the effect of gibbon but the fact that all of current WRs are jumps with gibbon is an sufficient argument. All players should have the same conditions. Long story short...just make DSJ 4 2.0 with this mechanism + record reset. Current records would be freezed, not deleted...Thank you.
Name: Jan Kapustka
Nation: CZE
arjunkumar63la
Posts: 1
Joined: 24 Mar 2023, 15:54

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by arjunkumar63la »

I think the removal of the gibbon, is a very good idea, it should be worked out calmly, without any rush, to be fine-tuned for next season already, or test no gibbon in the WOTs in the Summer. panoramacharter.ltd

192.168.1.1
Last edited by arjunkumar63la on 30 Mar 2023, 16:51, edited 1 time in total.
Aleks_124
Posts: 139
Joined: 01 Nov 2022, 19:17

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by Aleks_124 »

JanK wrote: 16 Mar 2023, 00:43 We have tons of new hills, custom outfits, new tournaments. All those things are great but I definitely agree that implementing anti-gibbon mechanism would really be a big step forward. Even though I'm using gibbon currently and I have to admit that it helped me to improve my records significantly, there shouldn't be this kind of glitch in a game that has real-world physics in its description. Yes DSJ4 is quite old game but there are still lot of active players (with some real ski jumpers among us + new names coming in) so we should be still looking for some ways how to make this game better. I don't have the ability to fully determin the effect of gibbon but the fact that all of current WRs are jumps with gibbon is an sufficient argument. All players should have the same conditions. Long story short...just make DSJ 4 2.0 with this mechanism + record reset. Current records would be freezed, not deleted...Thank you.
Yeah! Like Counter-Strike 2 lol
Tom2
Posts: 707
Joined: 24 Jul 2011, 14:02
Contact:

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by Tom2 »

Jussi Koskela wrote: 03 Mar 2023, 13:41 I did earlier a quick experiment how the game would look with anti-gibbon system:
https://www.mediamond.fi/images/dsj4-anti-gibbon.mp4
Love the deadliness of this crash (and also how well Jussi did that gibbon thing) :twisted:

That's obviously a great idea and I fully support it, the question is when and how. It's all up to Jussi, isn't it :)
DSJ3 TL: 7755.36m (#39), peak: 1325 (#490)
DSJ4 TL: 3550.97m (#3), online: 3506.29m (#11), peak: 1942 (#5)

DSJ3 PB: 318.88m (#19)
DSJ4 PB: 242.88m (#2)
Severin
Posts: 255
Joined: 25 Jan 2007, 20:36

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by Severin »

Honestly an updated version where Gibbon won't be possible anymore with a fresh record list sounds like a perfect solution. Just leave the current one on the website so that everyone can see what the records were.

Record lists have already been frozen and restarted multiple times with new versions whenever there were game changing updates.

Heck, I'd even pay for an update if I could be sure Gibbon is gone and it's cheat proof.
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MikesCZ
Posts: 348
Joined: 19 Feb 2012, 14:18

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by MikesCZ »

Severin wrote: 04 Apr 2023, 18:07 Heck, I'd even pay for an update if I could be sure Gibbon is gone and it's cheat proof.
My paypal is ready too :) and if this update is released for free, I will purchase some key as a thank you.

Fresh record table and let's see who is the best without exploits. Would make the game more streamable as well, as gibbon is really awkward for viewers.
Name: Michal Kala
Nation: CZE

Support the game - buy it and come join us online!
Aleks_124
Posts: 139
Joined: 01 Nov 2022, 19:17

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by Aleks_124 »

See? Even the real ski jumper want to get gibbon eliminated. And my word to what Severin say:
Just leave the current one on the website so that everyone can see what the records were.
That is good idea. Two divisions into no-gibbon and gibbon is great.

And to paypal - You don't have to buy, just ask Jussi for you reset records :)
Radek Rýdl
Posts: 1
Joined: 04 Apr 2023, 19:32

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by Radek Rýdl »

It would be really nice to have DSJ without Gibbon, because it doesn't look very realistic. And I would love to see how it would be in online tournaments without this "cheat"


Radek Rýdl
SoBo
Posts: 348
Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 13:05
Location: Poland

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by SoBo »

Radek Rýdl wrote: 04 Apr 2023, 19:40 It would be really nice to have DSJ without Gibbon, because it doesn't look very realistic. And I would love to see how it would be in online tournaments without this "cheat"


Radek Rýdl
I agree in 100% :lol: DSJ 4 without Gibbon will change the game, but it won't change human, who has the skill in the game, will still have it. I see absolutely no changes, among the top players and the weepers will stop crying, unless they find another reason to vent frustration of forum, instead of accepting the situation, that the same names have dominated the game for years and you guys are just average players, needed to get ranked.
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SoBo
Posts: 348
Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 13:05
Location: Poland

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by SoBo »

If you compare DSJ 4 to real jumps, then you can see the difference between, for example, Maciej Kot and Dawid Kubacki.They both have skis and both of them make take-off, but that's where it ends, one will jump 100m and the other will jump 140m, one has the skill, the other doesn't.How do you imagine playing DSJ 4 without gibbon? The only problem should be the perfect take off in this game? And what then ? 200 people will jump the same distance? You will jump 140 meters at the competition, and you'll get to 50 and you jumped the same meters, then you will write to Jussi that game is broken, because those who have skill they get 20 and you get 18.5 notes, and he has to change that because it's not fair.I recommend it to no-skilled players, let Jussi make you a test server for the summer season with what he already has (non gibbon server), I'll give you notes from 20 to 20, and play yourselves, your dreams will finally come true.

So seriously, Jussi there is a clear need for you to implement for the summer period for testing what you have created (no gibbon), you will have time to make adjustments, and players for tests, maybe it will work.
PEAK : 1946

Online Total length 3531.47m
Severin
Posts: 255
Joined: 25 Jan 2007, 20:36

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by Severin »

Well, first of all, I wouldn't call Maciej unskilled, He is a world champion, a two time world championship medallist and a two time world cup winner, but if you say so.

And yeah, you can say that jumpers who can pull of Gibbon perfectly are better players. That's true, at least for the physics we have right now. But that doesn't change the fact, that a gibbon takeoff looks nothing like a real life takeoff. It hasn't in DSJ2 and it doesn't in DSJ4. But the approach of this game is still to be a sim, so it should also look like a sim.

And if you take gibbon away, there'll still be more skilled players and less skilled players, so there'll still be players jumping further, players jumping shorter.
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MikesCZ
Posts: 348
Joined: 19 Feb 2012, 14:18

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by MikesCZ »

Humans are not robots, they make mistakes in take off, or during flight, or landing, then they start to tilt, lose nerves...there is lot of jumps in one cup, you can get distracted, lose focus and make worse jumps easily. So I don't think we get to the point where everyone jumps the same distance....game will still reward those who put in hundreds of hours, we will just get rid of the ridiculous visuals that gibbon creates.

Agree that now is a good time to implement as it is after winter season.
Name: Michal Kala
Nation: CZE

Support the game - buy it and come join us online!
Xinitiao
Posts: 374
Joined: 05 Nov 2020, 22:49

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by Xinitiao »

SoBo wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 10:09 How do you imagine playing DSJ 4 without gibbon? The only problem should be the perfect take off in this game? And what then ? 200 people will jump the same distance?
It reads like the flight in dsj4 consists only of gibbon :P After 1000000 jumps in dsj4 you might forget that the most difficult part of dsj4 to master for new players is controlling the jumper's position in flight :wink: Just look at the bottom part of daily online HRs.
Severin wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 13:00 Well, first of all, I wouldn't call Maciej unskilled, He is a world champion, a two time world championship medallist and a two time world cup winner, but if you say so.
He's got no online World Records though :mrgreen:
Lurker since 2001
Better player than Garrean (for around 25 minutes at a time until he tries harder)
Dangerous Dave
Posts: 54
Joined: 07 Feb 2017, 23:31

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by Dangerous Dave »

SoBo wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 10:09 If you compare DSJ 4 to real jumps, then you can see the difference between, for example, Maciej Kot and Dawid Kubacki.They both have skis and both of them make take-off, but that's where it ends, one will jump 100m and the other will jump 140m, one has the skill, the other doesn't.How do you imagine playing DSJ 4 without gibbon? The only problem should be the perfect take off in this game? And what then ? 200 people will jump the same distance? You will jump 140 meters at the competition, and you'll get to 50 and you jumped the same meters, then you will write to Jussi that game is broken, because those who have skill they get 20 and you get 18.5 notes, and he has to change that because it's not fair.I recommend it to no-skilled players, let Jussi make you a test server for the summer season with what he already has (non gibbon server), I'll give you notes from 20 to 20, and play yourselves, your dreams will finally come true.

So seriously, Jussi there is a clear need for you to implement for the summer period for testing what you have created (no gibbon), you will have time to make adjustments, and players for tests, maybe it will work.
You are completely missing the point. People (at least the ones in this thread) are not complaining about gibbon because it is "too hard" or because they're hoping that removing it would magically turn them into top players. They also do not want the skill factor to completely disappear from the game, as you're implying. The problem with it is the fact that it is a physics exploit that looks unrealistic and just plain stupid. The game clearly wasn't meant to look like that. The slide bug was basically the same thing - you could learn it and use it to your advantage, it technically wasn't "cheating", but it was unrealistic and looked stupid. If the slide bug has been fixed, then gibbon should be fixed as well.

And it's not like the game will be any easier without gibbon. The take-off, transition to flight phase, the flight itself and landing are all very important parts of the jump that take countless hours to master. Removing gibbon will make one of those parts different, but it will definitely not make it super easy for anyone to do perfectly.

I agree that now is the right time to test an anti-gibbon system to make sure it has no big flaws or oversights for the next winter season. Clearly there is a lot of demand for it.
Aleks_124
Posts: 139
Joined: 01 Nov 2022, 19:17

Re: Gibbon - #FIX_Gibbon

Post by Aleks_124 »

Xinitiao wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 13:46
SoBo wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 10:09 How do you imagine playing DSJ 4 without gibbon? The only problem should be the perfect take off in this game? And what then ? 200 people will jump the same distance?
It reads like the flight in dsj4 consists only of gibbon :P After 1000000 jumps in dsj4 you might forget that the most difficult part of dsj4 to master for new players is controlling the jumper's position in flight :wink: Just look at the bottom part of daily online HRs.
Severin wrote: 05 Apr 2023, 13:00 Well, first of all, I wouldn't call Maciej unskilled, He is a world champion, a two time world championship medallist and a two time world cup winner, but if you say so.
He's got no online World Records though :mrgreen:
Severin meant Maciej Kot probably
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