Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Ideas and suggestions for improving DSJ4.
Xinitiao
Posts: 374
Joined: 05 Nov 2020, 22:49

Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Xinitiao »

1.11.1 WISHLIST
  1. custom textures of bindings, gloves, boots and helmet interior
  2. option for separate qualification bib design
  3. country flag bib label
  4. optional helmet flag
  5. saving/loading colors separately from saving/loading textures (in outfits xml)
  6. custom defining of default outfit
1.12.0 - CUP CUSTOMIZATION WISHLIST
  1. defining calendar via ui and via xml - like outfits, and also with save/load functionality
  2. merging world cup and team cup > teams as set of already created jumpers
  3. setting date time and weather for each competition
  4. adding SFWC (four rounds) mode
  5. adding Super Team (three rounds) mode (rule 3.2.4 and 3.2.4.1 https://assets.fis-ski.com/image/upload ... _Clean.pdf )
  6. and custom # of jumpers advancing to each round - similar to choosing amount of PQ
  7. custom tournaments with custom names inside world cup - like 4HT, Raw Air, Planica 7, FIS Team Tour etc.
  8. custom deciding which rounds/competitions count to which cup score - like olympics not counting to world cup or raw air quali counting towards raw air total
  9. custom leader bibs for custom tournament scoring leader
  10. custom points for competitions
  11. choosing which tournament standings are used for each competition’s startlist
  12. nations cup classification with optional custom scoring
  13. option for selecting startlist for 1st competition
  14. editing jumper/team list between competitions
  15. multiple named saves
  16. time passing between rounds by the amount based of the jumpers in a round i.e. 1 minute for jumper, but the hill is visually refreshing only between the rounds
  17. changing weather conditions between rounds
  18. saving between rounds and changing conditions when the save is loaded
  19. results table like here: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puchar_%C ... dywidualne - with only 1st 2nd 3rd place colored in gold/silver/bronze

-BLusiak, Xinitiao
Lurker since 2001
Better player than Garrean (for around 25 minutes at a time until he tries harder)
Jussi Koskela
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3647
Joined: 22 Jan 2007, 14:42
Location: Finland
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Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Jussi Koskela »

Very good suggestions!
wa_
Posts: 8
Joined: 14 Dec 2012, 01:07

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by wa_ »

Really nice suggestions! As I'd love to see more customization of competitions in DSJ4, I was also preparing a draft proposal of customization of World Cup mode few weeks ago, which could be based on XML file. The proposal considers multiple classifications, unlimited number of training, qualification and competition sessions, defining startlist based on specific classification, etc. so number of hardcoded rules is as minimal as possible. Such configuration schema would cover basically all individual World Cup scenarios, such as 'regular' competitions, 4 Hills Tournament, Raw Air, World Championships, Ski Flying Competitions/Championships, Season Finale and possibly many more. It would also allow to arrange non-real tournaments, such as 'King of the Hill' from SJ3. I didn't pay attention to team competitions though.

At first glance it seems a bit complicated and obviously would require a lot of development and UI changes. But this would be a really big step into adding more variety into the game, especially if it was implemented into Online game. This would allow private server owners to create fun competitions that don't have to base on real Ski Jumping rulesets.

I prepared an XML with comments and sample competitions. I didn't pay much attention to BIBs, element/attribute naming (some descriptions would seem unclear) and omitted a lot of potentially customizable stuff. Feel free to use/comment this draft proposal - I (and many other DSJ4 players) would be very grateful if such thing was possible. :)

Code: Select all

<tournament>
    <!--
        Definitions of all classifications that will be used in tournament. First defined classification will be marked
        as the main and default one.
        
        type - (points/wc/jump/place) type of classification, described later
        ref - unique name of classification, used for referencing in 'competitions' elements
        description - name of classification displayed in game
        visible - (true/false) classification is visible in game. It is useful for 'utility' classifications that are
                  not meant to be visible. Default value: true
    -->
    <classifications>
        <!--
            Points are added up by place achieved at the end of competition. Number of points is defined in child elements.
            Jumpers who will not pass through qualification round, will not get any points.
        -->
        <classification type="points" ref="wc" description="World Cup">
            <points place="1">100</points>
            <points place="2">80</points>
            <points place="3">60</points>
            <points place="4">50</points>
            <points place="5">45</points>
            <points place="10">30</points>
            (...)
        </classification>
        <!-- 
            This is same as "points" classification type, but predefined with standard World Cup scoring system.
        -->
        <classification type="wc" ref="wc" description="Other World Cup"/>
        <!--
            Points are added up based on total result achieved by jumper in competition. Only competition rounds count.
            Jumpers who will not pass through qualification round, will not get any points.
        -->
        <classification type="jump" ref="4ht" description="Four Hills Tournament"/>
        <classification type="jump" ref="wch_normal" description="World Championships - Normal Hill"/>
        <classification type="jump" ref="wch_large" description="World Championships - Large Hill"/>
        <classification type="jump" ref="sfwc" description="Ski Flying World Championships"/>
        <classification type="jump" ref="rawair" description="Raw Air"/>
        <!--
            Points are added up by place achieved at the end of competition. For example, if competition has 75 jumpers,
            points go the following way:
                1st place - 75
                2nd place - 74
                ...
                74th place - 2
                75th (last) place - 1
            Number of points is based on number of jumpers taking part in competition. Jumpers who will not pass through
            qualification round, will not get any points.
        -->
        <classification type="place" ref="other-tour" description="Some other tournament"/>
    </classifications>
    <competitions>
        <competition date="2022-12-20" hour="18:00" hill="Kranj HS109">
            <!--
                define how many jumpers are allowed in this competition
                    type:
                        all - every registered jumper
                        top - top X jumpers from specified classification
                        bottom - bottom X jumpers from specified classification
                        top_country - top X jumpers from specified classification from each country
                        bottom_country - bottom X jumpers from specified classification from each country
                    ref: classification reference, use 1st defined if not specified
                    limit: number of jumpers allowed to start (empty, 0 - allow all)
            -->
            <allowed type="all"/>
            
            <!--
                Defines jumpers order and bibs for competition. In case if specified classification is empty, use
                'main' classification. If 'main' classification is empty, use startlist based from user selection
                in game and do not generate leader BIB.
                
                ref: classification reference, use default one if not specified
                order: (asc/desc) startlist ordering. asc - from worst to best jumper. desc - from best to worst
                        jumper. Default value: asc
                leaderbib: (true/false) jumper on 1st place has leader BIB. Default value: true
                draw: (random/startlist) decide what to do in case if several jumpers have same number of points.
                       Default value: startlist
                       random: random ordering
                       startlist: ordering defined by startlist based from user selection in game
            -->
            <startlist ref="wc" order="asc" leaderbib="true" draw="random"/>
            
            <!-- Define rounds for this competition. Rounds are played in the same order as they are defined. -->
            
            <!--
                Training round. Jumpers cannot be knocked out. There can be multiple training rounds, placed
                anywhere. Only jumpers that passed through last qualifying round are allowed in this training session.
                
                score: (jump/distance/distance-cm/judge-3/judge-5/distance-points) which jump result should be
                       taken for total score calculation. Default value: distance-points
                changeweather: (true/false) change wind conditions (and other weather parameters) with this session.
                               Default value: false
            -->
            <training score="distance-points"/>
            <training/>
            <training/>
            
            <!--
                Qualification rounds. Jumpers can be knocked out, jump points are not taken into account in
                competition. There can be multiple qualification rounds, in that case jumpers will highest points sum
                will pass through.
                
                limit: number of jumpers that will qualify to next round
                rounds: number of rounds that will be played for this qualification. Default: 1
                skip: (true/false) skip this qualification round if number of jumpers starting in this round is
                      less or equal than number defined in 'limit' attribute. Default value: false
                exact: (true/false) specifies if only exact number of jumpers defined in 'limit' attribute can
                       qualify:
                       - if there are several jumpers in last qualified place (e.g. 4 jumpers at 50th place),
                         qualify jumpers with highest BIB
                       - crash rule doesn't apply
                       Default value: false
                score: (jump/distance/distance-cm/judge-3/judge-5/distance-points) which jump result should be
                       taken for total score calculation. Default value: jump
                preq: number of jumpers that will be pre-qualified. Only jumpers with highest BIBs will be
                      pre-qualified. Default value: 0
                newstartlist: (true/false) use new BIBs for this and further rounds (until another round with
                              newstartlist=true). If true, results of previous round will be used as a startlist for
                              this round. Jumpers will receive new BIBs. Leader BIB will be still assigned to
                              classification leader (as long as startlist/leaderbib is set to true).
                              Default value: false
                changeweather: (true/false) change wind conditions (and other weather parameters) with this session.
                               Default value: false
            -->
            <qualification limit="50" rounds="2" skip="false" exact="true" score="jump" preq="10"/>
            <training/>
            
            <!--
                Competition rounds. Jumpers can be knocked out, final placement and result is based on sum of jump
                points scored in all rounds. Only jumpers who participate at least in one competition round can
                score points in any classification.
                
                type: (default/ko) type of competition round. If this is a KO round, jumpers will get new BIBs
                      based on their placement in previous round/qualification. (e.g. first place - 1, 
                      last place - 50). Default value: default
                limit: number of jumpers that will qualify to next round
                exact: (true/false) specifies if only exact number of jumpers defined in 'limit' attribute can
                       qualify:
                       - if there are several jumpers in last qualified place (e.g. 4 jumpers at 50th place),
                         qualify jumpers with highest BIB (lowest in KO-based startlist)
                       - crash rule doesn't apply
                       Default value: false
                score: (jump/distance/distance-cm/judge-3/judge-5/distance-points) which jump result should be
                       taken for total score calculation. Default value: jump
                newstartlist: (true/false) use new BIBs for this and further rounds (until another round with
                              newstartlist=true). If true, results of previous round will be used as a startlist for
                              this round. Jumpers will receive new BIBs. Leader BIB will be still assigned to
                              classification leader (as long as startlist/leaderbib is set to true).
                              
                              Default value: false. For KO rounds, this setting is always true, and cannot be changed
                              to false.
                changeweather: (true/false) change wind conditions (and other weather parameters) with this session.
                               Default value: false
            -->
            <round type="default" limit="30" exact="false" score="jump"/>
            <round/>
            
            <!--
                Define classifications that will be updated after this competition.
                
                ref: classification reference
                qualification: take sum of all qualification jumps into final score (applies only if classification
                               type is 'jump').
            -->
            <classification ref="wc"/>
            <classification ref="rawair" qualification="true"/>
        </competition>
        (...)
        <!-- example of Four Hills Tournament competition -->
        <competition date="2022-12-29" hour="18:00" hill="Oberstdorf HS137">
            <allowed type="top" ref="wc" limit="75"/>
            <startlist ref="wc"/>
            <training/>
            <qualification limit="50"/>
            <round type="ko" limit="30"/>
            <round/>
            <classification ref="wc"/>
            <classification ref="4ht"/>
        </competition>
        (...)
        <!-- example of World Championships -->
        <competition date="2023-01-16" hour="12:00" hill="Planica HS102">
            <allowed type="top_country" ref="wc" num="4"/>
            <startlist ref="wc" order="asc" leaderbib="true" draw="random"/>
            <training/>
            <qualification limit="50"/>
            <round type="default" limit="30"/>
            <round/>
            <classification ref="wch_normal"/>
        </competition>
        <competition date="2023-01-19" hour="12:00" hill="Planica HS138">
            <allowed type="top_country" ref="wc" num="4"/>
            <startlist ref="wc" order="asc" leaderbib="true" draw="random"/>
            <training/>
            <qualification limit="50"/>
            <round type="default" limit="30"/>
            <round/>
            <classification ref="wch_large"/>
        </competition>
        (...)
        <!-- example of Ski Flying World Championships -->
        <competition date="2023-02-25" hour="16:00" hill="Vikersund HS240">
            <allowed type="top_country" ref="wc" num="4"/>
            <startlist ref="wc" order="asc" leaderbib="true" draw="random"/>
            <training/>
            <qualification limit="40"/>
            <round type="default" limit="30"/>
            <round/>
            <round/>
            <round/>
            <classification ref="sfwc"/>
        </competition>
    </competitions>
</tournament>
Lechoo
Posts: 100
Joined: 31 May 2012, 15:28

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Lechoo »

@Xinitiao

Do you really believe that that lazy man will do anything more in the future?

Website - no changes in layout since 2001
Main menu DSJ4 picture - no changes since DSJ3 2004
DSJ4 - without "Gosisek Bros" and the community - no new hills since 2013
Image
MikesCZ
Posts: 348
Joined: 19 Feb 2012, 14:18

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by MikesCZ »

Lechoo wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 23:33 @Xinitiao

Do you really believe that that lazy man will do anything more in the future?

Website - no changes in layout since 2001
Main menu DSJ4 picture - no changes since DSJ3 2004
DSJ4 - without "Gosisek Bros" and the community - no new hills since 2013
Feel free to leave then...is anyone forcing you to be here? Game is doing great.
Name: Michal Kala
Nation: CZE

Support the game - buy it and come join us online!
Xinitiao
Posts: 374
Joined: 05 Nov 2020, 22:49

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Xinitiao »

Lechoo wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 23:33 @Xinitiao

Do you really believe that that lazy man will do anything more in the future?
Well, I'm still waiting for the moment when you'll contribute something valuable to the DSJ community ;) (You can share with us e.g. a good quality hill, some nice outfits or an idea for a main menu picture. But this is offtopic from this thread.)
Or at least for the moment when your input won't be actively detrimental...
Lurker since 2001
Better player than Garrean (for around 25 minutes at a time until he tries harder)
Milos
Posts: 12
Joined: 30 Jan 2009, 17:41

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Milos »

Great suggestions here! I'd add the ability to modify (decrease) the skills of player-controlled jumpers, so that a poor jump with Kraft will still be much longer than excellent jumps with FIS Cup level competitors. That's something I've been doing in my offline world cup by changing the altitude of the hill with Cheat Engine. Let's say that every jumper has a slider (or 3 sliders if we retain the distinction between normal, large and ski-flying hills) where 100 means that you jump with the hill's default altitude (not less, cause then it would affect all offline records and probably cause a massive backlash in the community, and rightfully so). Then, if the hill has an altitude of 1000 m and you've set 90 for your jumper for that particular hill size, the altitude will be changed to 1200 m only for the duration of the jump (with 20 m per point as the modifier: 100 - 90 = 10. 10 x 20 = 200. 1000 m + 200 = 1200 m). Would it be possible?
Xinitiao
Posts: 374
Joined: 05 Nov 2020, 22:49

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Xinitiao »

Related to the suggestion above - I'd also love the CPU rating scale to be extended downwards - currently with level 600 you can't really recreate FIS Cup - level jumpers or even many from the Continental Cup, and it's fun to have underdogs in your game - look at Eddie Edwards :D
Lurker since 2001
Better player than Garrean (for around 25 minutes at a time until he tries harder)
Jougel81
Posts: 2
Joined: 01 Dec 2022, 18:58

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Jougel81 »

Hallo,
I'm new to the forum but not to DSJ 4. I'm jumping quite a while. My average jumps go near the construction point (red line) and sometimes near hillsize. Finally 1 jump against CPU Players with 600 to 1100. Even the 600 points jumper sometimes jumps to hillsize and the 1100 jumper often wins because at a 120 meter hill with hillsize 136 meters I jump around 125 meters with both jumps and the 1100 points jumper jumps 134 meters and 125 meters, even the 600 points jumper sometimes jumps 130 meters. So I don't understand what's the meaning of this points. It seems the possibility to jump to hill size. A 1600 point jumper always jumps to HS and a 600 points jumper jumps 10 percent of his jumps to hillsize?
Personally I would prefer a system let's say from 0 to 1000 points for his average jumps and a range system from 0 to 500 to add or delete from the average jumps system but no jumper can get more than 1100 points and less than 0 points. The jumper with 1100 points jumps around hill record because he is over 1000 points. With 1000 points the jumper jumps around hillsize. With 600 points the jumper jumps around construction point, with 300 points the jumper jumps around the blue line and with 0 points he jumps the blue line - (redline-blueline).
Examples:
Janne Ahonen at his prime time was a 950 points jumper with a small range of 100. So if he is not fit he has a jumping skill from 950 - 100 = 850 points. He is good enough to jump between the red line and the hillsize. If he is in great form he has 950 + 100 = 1050 points and jumps over hillsize. He is always in the front group and sometimes wins.
Gregor Schlierenzauer in prime days was a 1000 points jumper but he has a wider range of 300 points so he jumps 1000 + 100 = 1100 points (around hill record) or 1000 - 300 = 700 points (over red line). So he is sometimes at the top and sometimes in the middle of the table.
Eddie the Eagle is a 0 points jumper with a range of 0 so he is always at the bottom of the table.
I would prefer such a system so weaker jumpers like me have a chance to get to the second round and with personal records sometimes win. Now it's frustrating not to have a chance to win.
Further I would like:
female jumpers with the right body type.
Wind and gate rules.
A system that shows how early or late the jump was.
A real world cup weekend with training jumps (optional), qualification and the first and second round.
Mix of single and team competitions.
Seperate cup standings (small hill < 60 m), normal hill (60 - 100 m), large hill ( 100 - 150 m), flying hills (> 185 m), team cup.
Four hills tournament, Raw Air with the special rules integrated in the world cup.
Select jumpers from single competition for the team cup.
Groups for jumpers, for example group 1 is world cup, group 2 are legends, group 3 females, so you can select groups instead of single jumpers.
I hope you can understand my English and what I mean with my suggestions and hopefully you think about the ideas.
damwach
Posts: 2
Joined: 07 Nov 2021, 14:40

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by damwach »

I think about windtunnel mode for training. Maybe ghost or line of jump from reeplay to compare jumps? Xilintiao ideas are great. Jussi are You talk to FIS to make give You official licension to competition etc.?
Haibara23
Posts: 1
Joined: 09 Feb 2023, 06:12

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Haibara23 »

I love these ideas, hope they can add them in the next updates
takahara1987
Posts: 28
Joined: 26 Nov 2013, 02:33

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by takahara1987 »

Xinitiao wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 01:32 1.11.1 WISHLIST
  1. custom textures of bindings, gloves, boots and helmet interior
  2. option for separate qualification bib design
  3. country flag bib label
  4. optional helmet flag
  5. saving/loading colors separately from saving/loading textures (in outfits xml)
  6. custom defining of default outfit
1.12.0 - CUP CUSTOMIZATION WISHLIST
  1. defining calendar via ui and via xml - like outfits, and also with save/load functionality
  2. merging world cup and team cup > teams as set of already created jumpers
  3. setting date time and weather for each competition
  4. adding SFWC (four rounds) mode
  5. adding Super Team (three rounds) mode (rule 3.2.4 and 3.2.4.1 https://assets.fis-ski.com/image/upload ... _Clean.pdf )
  6. and custom # of jumpers advancing to each round - similar to choosing amount of PQ
  7. custom tournaments with custom names inside world cup - like 4HT, Raw Air, Planica 7, FIS Team Tour etc.
  8. custom deciding which rounds/competitions count to which cup score - like olympics not counting to world cup or raw air quali counting towards raw air total
  9. custom leader bibs for custom tournament scoring leader
  10. custom points for competitions
  11. choosing which tournament standings are used for each competition’s startlist
  12. nations cup classification with optional custom scoring
  13. option for selecting startlist for 1st competition
  14. editing jumper/team list between competitions
  15. multiple named saves
  16. time passing between rounds by the amount based of the jumpers in a round i.e. 1 minute for jumper, but the hill is visually refreshing only between the rounds
  17. changing weather conditions between rounds
  18. saving between rounds and changing conditions when the save is loaded
  19. results table like here: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puchar_%C ... dywidualne - with only 1st 2nd 3rd place colored in gold/silver/bronze

-BLusiak, Xinitiao
If it's all gonna be in new versions then we can say this game is awesome!
Cinek90
Posts: 9
Joined: 30 Nov 2020, 15:50

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Cinek90 »

hello jussi will it be possible to change the appearance of the beam in the new update? not to use tex mod ?
Lechoo
Posts: 100
Joined: 31 May 2012, 15:28

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Lechoo »

I wouldn't expect it. This guy is too lazy to implement anything new. His next "update" will be: all the online servers will be closed because it's not profitable even in winter.
Image
Aleks_124
Posts: 139
Joined: 01 Nov 2022, 19:17

Re: Ideas and suggestions for the next update

Post by Aleks_124 »

texting from lechoo is not anything new too, and next post will be: banning him on Mediamond Forum :P
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