Remember how Adam is always on start when move touched hands, ski??
You know what's going on?
Look in 53 seconds how to start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY2Le4tw1EI
I think Jussi think that was so cool if the DSJ was 4!
I think Jussi That it would cool if you can this have been done so in DSJ4! For example choking a key. Then who could it starts as Malysz! Of course, it would be Normally starts, and who could starts as Małysz!
"Squat Malysz"
-
Bartek5035
- Posts: 485
- Joined: 22 Jan 2011, 00:27
- Location: Poland
- Contact:
-
kamilking1
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 29 Jan 2011, 17:53
-
doubleffect
- Posts: 52
- Joined: 08 Mar 2009, 06:56
- Location: Poland
Yes, firstly Małysz doesn't do that anymore (I really didn't know what you meant at first, I don't understand your English) and secondly it's an unnecessary thing.
What we've got now in DSJ4 is more like Stephan Hocke style or other similar jumpers who don't lean out almost at all. It's totally unrealistic... Go in your memories a few seasons back and recall how Jakub Janda jumped. In DSJ4 if you try to do that, you flip frontwards. You couldn't jump like that in DSJ3 either but position of the jumper in DSJ3 was much more natural. It's physics that if you lean out like Janda used to and you make yourself with your skis a "flat surface", you benefit much more from front wind and also back wind has less impact on your jump.
Now to have the jumper jump long in DSJ4, you have to take off at the right time, then do nothing for like a second and then move the mouse just a bit (like 1cm at most) towards yourself to get a good position (good position in the game, in real life with such a position you wouldn't jump over K-point). You don't have to move the mouse away from you at all, actually this decreases length of the jump.
In DSJ3 you had to do a lot more after good takeoff (so timing here as well). Firstly you had to move the mouse towards yourself but not totally so you don't start to lose height. When you got a good height, you had to move the mouse towards yourself more so you don't act like a "wall" and don't start falling down. You really had to manoeuvre to get a good position and keep it. Now you just have to move the mouse towards yourself at some point just a bit and voilà! You landed farther than K-point for sure.
Actually now I'd prefer an update for DSJ3 so the wind doesn't change that much and that's about it.
The position of the jumper in DSJ4 is unrealistic, it's unrealistic to do nothing for a second after taking off in ski jumping, you have to lean out immediately. Of course you need to gain some height first but it happens very fast. Well, today there's a competition in Klingenthal, watch what Morgenstern does with his hips and what he does with his trunk, he leans out a lot but what he does with hips is also important, that has made him one of the best jumpers for the last few seasons. Also look at Ammann's silhouette in air, he almost doesn't move when he gets height and then leans out (I know it's his bindings that let him keep such a silhouette in air with skis almost not moving at all - and the rest's skis go up and down often and if there's a wind... and this concerns even the best jumpers up in the WC table - see Małysz's skis, they move a lot, yet he can jump very far when he's in form, if it weren't for that nasty fall in Zakopane, he'd be great now, that magic of his was coming back).
What we've got now in DSJ4 is more like Stephan Hocke style or other similar jumpers who don't lean out almost at all. It's totally unrealistic... Go in your memories a few seasons back and recall how Jakub Janda jumped. In DSJ4 if you try to do that, you flip frontwards. You couldn't jump like that in DSJ3 either but position of the jumper in DSJ3 was much more natural. It's physics that if you lean out like Janda used to and you make yourself with your skis a "flat surface", you benefit much more from front wind and also back wind has less impact on your jump.
Now to have the jumper jump long in DSJ4, you have to take off at the right time, then do nothing for like a second and then move the mouse just a bit (like 1cm at most) towards yourself to get a good position (good position in the game, in real life with such a position you wouldn't jump over K-point). You don't have to move the mouse away from you at all, actually this decreases length of the jump.
In DSJ3 you had to do a lot more after good takeoff (so timing here as well). Firstly you had to move the mouse towards yourself but not totally so you don't start to lose height. When you got a good height, you had to move the mouse towards yourself more so you don't act like a "wall" and don't start falling down. You really had to manoeuvre to get a good position and keep it. Now you just have to move the mouse towards yourself at some point just a bit and voilà! You landed farther than K-point for sure.
Actually now I'd prefer an update for DSJ3 so the wind doesn't change that much and that's about it.
The position of the jumper in DSJ4 is unrealistic, it's unrealistic to do nothing for a second after taking off in ski jumping, you have to lean out immediately. Of course you need to gain some height first but it happens very fast. Well, today there's a competition in Klingenthal, watch what Morgenstern does with his hips and what he does with his trunk, he leans out a lot but what he does with hips is also important, that has made him one of the best jumpers for the last few seasons. Also look at Ammann's silhouette in air, he almost doesn't move when he gets height and then leans out (I know it's his bindings that let him keep such a silhouette in air with skis almost not moving at all - and the rest's skis go up and down often and if there's a wind... and this concerns even the best jumpers up in the WC table - see Małysz's skis, they move a lot, yet he can jump very far when he's in form, if it weren't for that nasty fall in Zakopane, he'd be great now, that magic of his was coming back).
DSJ3 Personal best: 314.0m (Slovenia)
DSJ4 Personal best: 196.5m (Planica) (what a great jump that was!...)
DSJ4 Personal best: 196.5m (Planica) (what a great jump that was!...)
-
kamilking1
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 29 Jan 2011, 17:53
I think adding some movement of jumper in DSJ could be nice and would make the game more realistic. The jumper could check his goggles or bindings while sitting on the bar. Different ways of leaving the bar would be an interesting detail too (it could be chosen randomly by the computer) - every jumper has his own method (for example Evensen's is the most extreme), whereas in DSJ there is only one technique of start.
Paweł Wlazło
DSJ3 TL: 7704.92m POR: 1390
DSJ4 B2 TL: 596.83m POR: 1298
DSJ3 TL: 7704.92m POR: 1390
DSJ4 B2 TL: 596.83m POR: 1298
-
kamilking1
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 29 Jan 2011, 17:53
Sorry, but not true in reality. There are a huge number of parts which make or don't make an aerodynamic flying style, but one of the key components is always the body - ski angle, which doesn't necessarily have too be extremely small, but more important has to keep the system in balance... E.g. Hilde jumps sometimes even with a negative ski angle. First you'd think that has to be bad because he sould lose heigth, but if your body angle, seen as a whole isn't too close to the skis you're able too accelerate with that technique. Also visible in some jumps of Schlierenzauer, etc. A flat surface is very likely to be more susceptible for extern effects such as wind...doubleffect wrote: What we've got now in DSJ4 is more like Stephan Hocke style or other similar jumpers who don't lean out almost at all. It's totally unrealistic... Go in your memories a few seasons back and recall how Jakub Janda jumped. In DSJ4 if you try to do that, you flip frontwards. You couldn't jump like that in DSJ3 either but position of the jumper in DSJ3 was much more natural. It's physics that if you lean out like Janda used to and you make yourself with your skis a "flat surface", you benefit much more from front wind and also back wind has less impact on your jump.
-
doubleffect
- Posts: 52
- Joined: 08 Mar 2009, 06:56
- Location: Poland
Well, you're an expert here so there's not much left for discussion. 
Anyway, what you wrote about Schlierenzauer - actually a lot of Austrian jumpers jump like that now, it's hard to see now what I described in Morgenstern's style, he did that when he was younger (probably during the time when Małysz won WC 3 times in a row.
And in DSJ3 the position of the jumper in air looked more classic (but "V" of course), I don't really know what jumper I should give as an example now, e.g. early 90s Toni Nieminen. Trying to create a "flat surface" in DSJ3 does nothing good so one doesn't have to lean out that much. I'm not saying you can't really jump well with position in air similar to this in DSJ4, it really reminds me Stephan Hocke the most (yet I guess it looks different live at the stadium, he actually won once in Engelberg and he's always jumped like that). I guess there is some margin for skis-jumper's trunk angle so you can jump well.
I agree that earlier Jakub Janda's style ("flat surface", minus angle sometimes) isn't safe but he isn't the only one to jump similarly, I don't remember anyone to lean out that much except him but the Japanese style before 2000 was also based on leaning out a lot. Noriaki Kasai still jumps and he didn't change that.
EDIT: I take back all I wrote about Hocke's style. I've just watched videos from different periods and he leans out more than one has to to jump well in DSJ4.
Anyway, what you wrote about Schlierenzauer - actually a lot of Austrian jumpers jump like that now, it's hard to see now what I described in Morgenstern's style, he did that when he was younger (probably during the time when Małysz won WC 3 times in a row.And in DSJ3 the position of the jumper in air looked more classic (but "V" of course), I don't really know what jumper I should give as an example now, e.g. early 90s Toni Nieminen. Trying to create a "flat surface" in DSJ3 does nothing good so one doesn't have to lean out that much. I'm not saying you can't really jump well with position in air similar to this in DSJ4, it really reminds me Stephan Hocke the most (yet I guess it looks different live at the stadium, he actually won once in Engelberg and he's always jumped like that). I guess there is some margin for skis-jumper's trunk angle so you can jump well.
I agree that earlier Jakub Janda's style ("flat surface", minus angle sometimes) isn't safe but he isn't the only one to jump similarly, I don't remember anyone to lean out that much except him but the Japanese style before 2000 was also based on leaning out a lot. Noriaki Kasai still jumps and he didn't change that.
EDIT: I take back all I wrote about Hocke's style. I've just watched videos from different periods and he leans out more than one has to to jump well in DSJ4.
DSJ3 Personal best: 314.0m (Slovenia)
DSJ4 Personal best: 196.5m (Planica) (what a great jump that was!...)
DSJ4 Personal best: 196.5m (Planica) (what a great jump that was!...)
I think Michael Neumayer is showing us that a flying position that isn't aestheticaly pleasing can be effective, since he does pretty well on flying hills, also Kamil Stoch is jumping with a style that is pretty similar to what we have in DSJ4 right now. But it's also true that being closer to the skies is still the dominating style, just look at Andreas Kofler, his flight position really resembles the japanese style, just like Jakub Jandas.
Re: "Squat Malysz"
Good idea, in my opinion