95% crash rule

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Jussi Koskela
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95% crash rule

Post by Jussi Koskela »

Too bad Severin Freund crashed yesterday. Better luck in the large hill!

My question is about his qualification for the 2nd round:

Severin jumped 99.5 meters on the first round and the longest jump was Kamil Stoch's 105.5 meters.
95% of 105.5 meters is 100.225 meters which is more than 99.5 meters.

Do they take the wind compensation into account in this 95% rule or why exactly did Severin qualify for the 2nd round?
Martin Kafka
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Re: 95% crash rule

Post by Martin Kafka »

"A jumper, who has reached 95% of the maximum length of the longest jump by the jumpers who have to qualify but has a fall, has the right to participate in the competition in addition to the top 50."
(ICR, October 2013 edition)

The crucial phrase here is "by the jumpers who have to qualify" - Kamil Stoch was one of the 10 prequalified. The next longest jump by a non-PQ jumper was Maksimochkin's 104 m, which gives us a 95% result of 98,8 m.
The above mentioned is obviously meant for the qualification and the rule doesn't specify whether this also applies for qualifying for 2nd round, but I'll just go ahead and assume this was the case.
I'm not saying this was the official reason, but it's the only explanation I can think of.

edit: I've been snooping around some more and found out this theory is supported by the rule 4.2.1.9 of Rules for the FIS WC which clearly states that a jumper, who has reached 95 % of the maximum length of the longest jump by the jumpers who have to qualify but has a fall, has the right to participate in the competition in addition to the 30.
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Re: 95% crash rule

Post by Jussi Koskela »

In the German version of World Cup Rules the wordings are bit different:

Qualification:
"4.2.1.3.1 Ein Springer, der 95 % der Höchstweite der sich zu qualifizierenden Athleten erzielt, dabei aber stürzte, hat das Recht, zusätzlich zu den 50 am Wettkampf teilzunehmen."

1st Round:
"4.2.1.9 Ein Springer, der im ersten Wertungsdurchgang 95% der Höchstweite des Durchganges erzielte, dabei aber stürzte, hat das Recht, zusätzlich zu den 30 Bestplatzierten am Finaldurchgang teilzunehmen."

My German is not very good. Does the German version also say that the prequalified jumpers don't count for the longest jump in the qualification? In DSJ4 they count, so it could be wrong in the game. But at least there is no mention of prequalified jumpers in the rule for the 1st round, so it doesn't explain why Severin qualified for the 2nd round.
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Re: 95% crash rule

Post by Martin Kafka »

The bits you quoted do not contain the sentence I underlined from english version. This little detail makes all the difference in this particular case. So we're left with a problem which version of the rules is the most accurate and definitive.
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Re: 95% crash rule

Post by Jussi Koskela »

Martin Kafka wrote:The bits you quoted do not contain the sentence I underlined from english version. This little detail makes all the difference in this particular case. So we're left with a problem which version of the rules is the most accurate and definitive.
Does "sich zu qualifizierenden" refer to "those who qualified" or to "those who had to qualify"? I would guess that the German version is more accurate.
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Re: 95% crash rule

Post by Martin Kafka »

Jussi Koskela wrote:Does "sich zu qualifizierenden" refer to "those who qualified" or to "those who had to qualify"?
Can't tell for sure, I haven't actively used German in years. My guess is that it's supposed to mean "those who had to qualify" as to match the english version which was probably translated from the German one, not the other way around. FIS is located at Switzerland, it would make sense. Supossing the German version is the accurate one - they deliberately left out the "zu qualifizierenden" bit in 4.2.1.9. That brings us back to 105,5 m jump being the calculation base, questioning the legitimacy of Severin's admittance to 2nd round. I guess the rules simply don't "count" with this situation happening.

However, we still don't know if this indeed was the rule applied by the judges on Sunday. "Additionally Qualified by Rule" is all that stands in the official PDF as a footnote without referencing the exact number of rule, which they usually do.

For some strange reason, Severin's jump might have been rounded UP to 100m while the 95% outcome of Stoch's jump rounded DOWN to 100. I highly doubt this - 95 % of HS106 is calculated as 100,5 in the official PDF so we know they round down when necessary, and should therefore do so also in case of both of those jumps.

For the game's sake it might be worth a shot getting someone directly from FIS to answer this.
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Re: 95% crash rule

Post by Maciejo-96 »

That seems weird and complicated. I learn German actually but I think so far it's pretty hard to understand.

But my opinion is that 'sich zu qualifizierenden' refer to 'those who had to qualify', agreeing with Martin. But, fortunately, in only few competitions we can see minimally one fall, so it don't make problems.
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Georg Gasser
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Re: 95% crash rule

Post by Georg Gasser »

Jussi Koskela wrote:In the German version of World Cup Rules the wordings are bit different:

Qualification:
"4.2.1.3.1 Ein Springer, der 95 % der Höchstweite der sich zu qualifizierenden Athleten erzielt, dabei aber stürzte, hat das Recht, zusätzlich zu den 50 am Wettkampf teilzunehmen."

1st Round:
"4.2.1.9 Ein Springer, der im ersten Wertungsdurchgang 95% der Höchstweite des Durchganges erzielte, dabei aber stürzte, hat das Recht, zusätzlich zu den 30 Bestplatzierten am Finaldurchgang teilzunehmen."

My German is not very good. Does the German version also say that the prequalified jumpers don't count for the longest jump in the qualification? In DSJ4 they count, so it could be wrong in the game. But at least there is no mention of prequalified jumpers in the rule for the 1st round, so it doesn't explain why Severin qualified for the 2nd round.
Nein es ist nicht das gleiche denn es heißt ja die HÖCHSTWEITE DES DURCHGANGS nicht der der zu qualifizierenden
No it's not the same because in the rules it says that The longest jump of the 1st round not of the jumpers who have to qualifiy
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