Suggestion for Online Rating improvement

Ideas and suggestions for improving DSJ4.
Post Reply
Przemator
Posts: 7
Joined: 15 Jan 2012, 19:44

Suggestion for Online Rating improvement

Post by Przemator »

Hello Everyone

I wrote this post because I think the Online Rating system used in DSJ could be improved.
The Elo System is good for 1 on 1 games, but problems occur when there are more players.
The current method is to treat each competition as a series of 1 on 1 duels.
I think this appraoch is unfair, as one unlucky jump may result in losing of 50 "duels".
You would agree, that one bad jump is not the same as 50 bad jumps.

I myself am hosting an online racing competition with Elo-based formula to calculate skill.
To solve the issue with high number of competitiors, I am using Elo adjustment.
First, I calculate the changes in Elo scores of all players, the same as in DSJ Online.
Then, I divide each score by the square root of the number of opponents (this is the adjustment).

so, my proposed formula is new_elo = old_elo + default_difference / sqrt(num_of_jumpers - 1)

To compare both methods I created a graph below.
The graph shows how much points would you gain by beating X equal opponents (let's say you all have 1000 points).
DSJ Online uses the K-value of 1 in the Elo formula, I increased it to 6, to accomodate the adjustment.

Image

Findings:
1. In a game of two equal jumpers, you would only gain 0,5 points with default method, 3 points with adjustment. Imagine jumping 1 on 1 with a friend. It would take ages to build up an advantage with the default method.
2. In case of 36 opponents, both methods yield the same results (beating 36 equally ranked opponents gives you +18 points).
3. In case of 64 equal opponents, you gain 32 points with default method, only 24 with adjusted. Imagine having a terrible qualifying jump, with a fall perhaps. Last place and many points lost. The adjustment fixes this.

Well, this is it. Let me know what you think. As I've said, I'm using this formula in my racing league and it works well.
Grufugl
Posts: 192
Joined: 23 Jan 2007, 03:48
Location: Norway

Re: Suggestion for Online Rating improvement

Post by Grufugl »

I can't evaluate the mathematics. But I do recognize the problems you describe with the current system, and a solution/improvement would be great. I think your suggestion is definitely interesting and should be seriously concidered!
MadJump
Posts: 56
Joined: 04 Jan 2012, 00:16

Re: Suggestion for Online Rating improvement

Post by MadJump »

Looks interesting.
Image
Jussi Koskela
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3655
Joined: 22 Jan 2007, 14:42
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Suggestion for Online Rating improvement

Post by Jussi Koskela »

It adds some excitement to the weekly tournaments that the stakes are higher, so I am not sure if this should be changed.
greex1
Posts: 1625
Joined: 09 Apr 2011, 22:36

Re: Suggestion for Online Rating improvement

Post by greex1 »

Jussi Koskela wrote:It adds some excitement to the weekly tournaments that the stakes are higher, so I am not sure if this should be changed.
Annoying is that after the fall we lose points earned for 10 contests.
DSJ4 Beta 2 - WR Total Lenght, WR Bad Mitterndorf HS200 and Zakopane HS94
Online World Cup 2011/2012 - World Cup A - 3rd position
Online World Cup 2012/2013 - Ski Flying A winner
Online 4HT 2013/2014 - World Cup A - 3rd position
Zmaster
Moderator
Posts: 774
Joined: 08 Feb 2011, 11:20

Re: Suggestion for Online Rating improvement

Post by Zmaster »

greex1 wrote:
Jussi Koskela wrote:It adds some excitement to the weekly tournaments that the stakes are higher, so I am not sure if this should be changed.
Annoying is that after the fall we lose points earned for 10 contests.

We better not fall :)
Image
That's gotta hurt.
SuperAdo111
Posts: 650
Joined: 22 Dec 2009, 22:32

Re: Suggestion for Online Rating improvement

Post by SuperAdo111 »

Zmaster wrote:
greex1 wrote:
Jussi Koskela wrote:It adds some excitement to the weekly tournaments that the stakes are higher, so I am not sure if this should be changed.
Annoying is that after the fall we lose points earned for 10 contests.

We better not fall :)
And noone is perfect,everyone make a fail 3-5 times in career (in real),i practice really much and i fail 2-3 times at 1 day in zakopane or ga-pa without reason,thats gate,or hill or telemark :)
Przemator
Posts: 7
Joined: 15 Jan 2012, 19:44

Re: Suggestion for Online Rating improvement

Post by Przemator »

Jussi Koskela wrote:It adds some excitement to the weekly tournaments that the stakes are higher, so I am not sure if this should be changed.
The K-value should be set according to the prestige of the event. E.g. if it is a regular online competition, K=5. If it's Wednesday/Sunday weekly cup, K=10.

I think the rating should reflect cup scores more. Imagine two jumpers. Jumper A is steady, always 20th. Jumper B is either first or last. They will both have low Elo, but Jumper B will be amongst the best jumpers in the cup.
Post Reply