It's time for repairing Online

General discussion about DSJ4.
SoBo
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It's time for repairing Online

Post by SoBo »

I haven't written about it for a long time, because it didn't make sense but the time has come, say my opinion about the Online game. I've always suggested, small changes dosed slowly, same as you did a few years ago. At this moment, Online looks like kind of owner implemented to game, everything that is available, without a specific plan for the future.First, changes should be made in tournaments, because they're just repulsive.The draw system is wrong, and the hills included in it, they are just funny (I am talking about hills below HS100m), this is a competition, not "casual" jumping, that's why I propose, changes starting from there. Another problem is too much "rooms", with hills which no one is playing anyway , it's just too much, but that's less of a problem.As a long time Online player, willingly I would play the official hills, (not randomly selected ), and this is not there.There are no official ski fly hills, which I mentioned earlier I just have to play 32 hills, and have good luck draw for example Planica HS240, and hit the wind in the back, and how does it work? people exit the game.There have been flying Hills since the beginning of this game, why they are not there, I have no idea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For this I will finish this post, we'll see how you relate to it, and write any further problems later, when you attempt to resolve these.
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Jussi Koskela
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by Jussi Koskela »

I have been thinking of grouping the hills to different pools in the Online Tournaments (e.g. normal hills, large hills, ski flying hills) and from each group there would be a constant number of hills chosen for the online tournaments. This way the number of competitions in small hills could be reduced but variety of hills could be preserved. For this only the implementation is missing. :)
Jussi Koskela
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by Jussi Koskela »

If there is popular demand for some new server I can setup it - which of course won't reduce the number of servers but will increase it.
SoBo
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by SoBo »

As i wrote earlier, there are no official ski fly hills Harrachov HS205, Oberstdorf HS213, Vikersund HS240 ,Oberstdorf HS235, and Planica HS240, same serwer was before,and many players played it.For a many of players, the problem before that was for example the hill Bischofshofen HS78, and stayed, i understand that, but I can not understand why did you add even smaller ones hills, to official competitions, you will answer in a moment, that there was a vote, then show me those who voted are they still playing ? At this moment many people create new hills, enjoy "i understand that", but I do not see the need implement these hills to online.A great option in my opinion, "to do with what is" hill list that appear in the real World Cup and play in DSJ 4, and that's why I wrote "DSJ 4", because now it's "DSJ MIX".The rest of the hills reevaluate, and organize.As I said, DSJ4 from 2014 was greate, "a few" changes were missing, so you can go back to "small changes", replace "old" hills, add which have been missing for years, and anyway the hill beyond the "official" do what you think, because too many of them. Maybe, divide online into "zones" DSJ2, DSJ3, DSJ4, maybe it will look better somehow, but focus on DSJ 4 official because there is competition here, we have May and low interest of competition is, and it will come back if this game will be arranged.
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RZYMDZIO
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by RZYMDZIO »

Completely agree with that ;>
sneze2r
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by sneze2r »

Also regarding online stats, I think it would be worth to update that for the next season. I mean mainly TL and Cup scores. For now it includes only official DSJ4 hills. But I imagine that default TL and CS that are avaliable now on the site will include updated real hills list. How this list will look like is discussable, but I imagine this list will be similar like is now on 'World Cup' server. But I would suggest to choose only real hills that were featured on official FIS world cup from last ~5 years and are still active and which HS is bigger than 95. So it will be discussable which hills we should choose for this (eg. pragelato hills probably will not be there), but I think updating this list would be benefitial because it will be more atractive to play on hills that are actually used right now on highest rank competitions.

Probably this list still would be so big, that on online game where world cup includes 32 hills it will still choose randomly some hills.

About the rest of TL and cup scores- It would be nice to include that also for the rest of the hill types- all real, old official hills(which is right now), fictional, retro, dsj2, dsj3...
Xinitiao
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by Xinitiao »

I've got a few ideas for improving online that I think can be implemented easily:

1) Adding original 24 hills to their respective Real/Retro/Ski Flying servers
Personally I think that the Original Hills server isn't needed but this suggestion isn't exclusive with having it too.

2) Adding 4 ski flying hills that were added to Online last month to Ski Flying server.

3) The private Small Hills server is a lot of fun, it would be nice to always have it :)

4) Now, during the offseason i think it would be very fun to add Experimental Hills server (no-rating) that would be exclusive i.e for the month of July. In my opinion it would be very fun to explore the more casual side of DSJ4 with hills like Nanu Jump Up, Vakari, Nepal or Matysmolec (Base Ski Jumping) and more, and by having it available for only a month online it would generate interest in the offseason without compromising the more serious part of online game that takes place during winter :)

5) Creating pools for tournaments based on hill size is a very good idea imo, my suggestion for 32 WOT hills is: 1 Small, 2 Medium, 7 Normal, 17 Large, 5 Flying. (in original 24 hills it was 0/1/5/14/4).

6) Are there more polls to add new hills to WOT pool planned? If so will they take place during the winter season or sooner? :)
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SoBo
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by SoBo »

To repair game condition we need :

On WOT/World Cup/Warm-up constants unchanging 32 hills.
We need also Ski Fly serwer with the official (modernized ) hills, new Kulm, Planica, Obersdorf,old Hasrrahov and add Vikersund.This server will be besieged.
When we talking to the variety of hill sizes, as he wrote above Xanitao, it would be great 0 Small, 0 Medium, 5 Normal, rest Large, 5 Flying, at constant setting in consideration old hills made by Jussi, but replace the which have the current modification made by players.I consider that for pure online competition, this is how it should be.

Lest another spoil the fun all hills below the HS 90 are needed, gather and make a small hills server.

Jussi now i'll write very mportant what needs to change. As you can see, almost nobody plays Online and I'll tell you why. DSJ 4 it has always been a game of competition, to beat Hill Records, or Total Lengtsh, "and probably", after persuading Gorisek Brothers, changed wind and the game has become unplayable (I'm not talking about WOT ), you enter the game, you start to play and what ? on 32 hills, 99% backwind, or totaly neutral, players "are skipping" hill, and another one is same.A few years ago, when I was playing day in and day out on 24 hills, everyone has 1-2 or more chance to hit the super wind, and we had 2.2 to 2.4 front wind, now is totaly depressing, and that is also important if you already find it wind is 1.6 max 1.9, why did you change it ? you took away from people the desire to play out of competition.You have to encourage them to play, and you did the opposite, that the think why i do not play online aswell.I can't find fun with this game now, and before that it was great.The next topic is the visibility of the F2 camera, This is very important, but leave out because hills are accepted by Macka i Bartka, and they have no idea how it should look like,just like you did, quick example your Bisho HS78, you could do good visibility for F2 players, and on new hills you accept everything, and we F2 players have to make take off on hearing,and it's that simple to fix, just nobody cares.I have been talking for a long time not quantity but quality, you can do a lot hills on serwer, but that's not the way.I know what I am proposing it will increase even in summer number of players Online, make the game playable do it for us, and don't just listen to people who still they are talking about Gibbon, they want to stop records online, because they always have a different vision from other players, jump W'R Online, is not easy and they know most (and they never had), you have to hit prefect take off , have a take off angle, speed everything must be 100% iperfect made, and anyway Mariusz Paweł jumps 1 cm longer :D :D :D.Let me know what you think about what I wrote, have your say about the wind,whether you or Gorisek changed it, whether they asked you for it , think about these hills and servers and you will see that I am right.
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Jussi Koskela
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by Jussi Koskela »

@Sobo: There are no changes to wind conditions or their randomness. Everything is just how it has always been.
SoBo
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by SoBo »

@Jussi Koskela: It might otherwise,i don't know myself in the hill setup cannot be changed, wind strength and direction ? You can think what you want, but I can see that something has changed, i'm playing this game many years, and the answer like that it is incomplete in my opinion.
Last edited by SoBo on 27 May 2021, 01:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Xinitiao
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by Xinitiao »

Wow
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SoBo
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by SoBo »

Maybe I will write differently, if everything is the same that's with more hills % hits good wind conditions it should be slightly raised, idon't know so you agree with that ?
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Xinitiao
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by Xinitiao »

No, i disagree completely with skewing random wind distribution just so that online hill records grinding is easier. If you want record hunting mode, there is a poll about it on the forum.
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SoBo
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by SoBo »

I don't like you, but I'll answer you.First, you have never had an online record, because you're too weak and I understand it not everyone has to be as good as me at DSJ :lol: :wink:. Now seriously, business is business and the owner should lead to interest in the game, and we as players, we should be happy to turn on the DSJ 4, and I do it you don't, u play 2 times a year, but as for the game, you speak too often.A simple matter, you are talking about online records, and how is it with Offline ? you take a pack of 1000 jumpers you are looking for front wind 2.4, and you make thousands of jumps and some records have long been unbeatable, even though you have so many chances.You should name it "grinding ", because for me personally, this is sick and I don't care about it.In Online, you have a maximum of 3 chances, of which at 90% in one of the 3 series will be weaker then WR wind, so 2 chances left,butif the players are to wait for chance, skipping hills online, it gets depressing and how it is little people online game.I spent time today, and saw the players playing, and what weekly records they have, and i see 91 weekly records on Zakopane HS94 and record holder Szymciu there was no wind on WR, so% for a week two or a month have not a chance to beat WR is cool ????Nobody will play it, including you because it is annoying.We're talking here on improving the condition of the "online" game, and not about your objections.I've been loving this game for years, i always played all year long but I don't do that anymore because it went wrong, and argues it with observation and the same opinion other players, who also don't play by what is happening, and this is big loss for this game.Will change, many will come back, there will be no changes will not come back, and you will continue to make hills for yourself which nobody is playing on, simple ¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯
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Xinitiao
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Re: It's time for repairing Online

Post by Xinitiao »

SoBo wrote: 27 May 2021, 12:48 I don't like you, but I'll answer you.First, you have never had an online record, because you're too weak and I understand it not everyone has to be as good as me at DSJ :lol: :wink:.
It might surprise you, but I've had more than one online record :wink:
SoBo wrote: 27 May 2021, 12:48 Now seriously, business is business and the owner should lead to interest in the game,
Well, you can see that DSJ Online is in better condition than ever https://bbtns.csb.app/ so while there always is room for improvement, saying that the game is dying is simply wrong and so is referring to the "golden times" of 2019 when you and 10 more people were playing online this time of year.
SoBo wrote: 27 May 2021, 12:48 and I do it you don't, u play 2 times a year, but as for the game, you speak too often.
Offtopic, ad personam and not factually correct.
SoBo wrote: 27 May 2021, 12:48 A simple matter, you are talking about online records, and how is it with Offline ? you take a pack of 1000 jumpers you are looking for front wind 2.4, and you make thousands of jumps and some records have long been unbeatable, even though you have so many chances.You should name it "grinding ", because for me personally, this is sick and I don't care about it.In Online, you have a maximum of 3 chances, of which at 90% in one of the 3 series will be weaker then WR wind, so 2 chances left,butif the players are to wait for chance, skipping hills online, it gets depressing and how it is little people online game.I spent time today, and saw the players playing, and what weekly records they have, and i see 91 weekly records on Zakopane HS94 and record holder Szymciu there was no wind on WR, so% for a week two or a month have not a chance to beat WR is cool ????
Funny you mention that, because it just so happens that Szymciu has access to a private server with all hills that he uses to grind online records.
One solution to that would be making "official" online records achievable only during official tournaments.
SoBo wrote: 27 May 2021, 12:48 Nobody will play it, including you because it is annoying.We're talking here on improving the condition of the "online" game, and not about your objections.
Really? I've been doing that, not sure about you.
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