Landing [Guide]

[Metsi]

Well actually i won't agree with you.
I had a real struggle with the landing too, but there are some things you just need to focus on.
The flying curve isn't that important. More important is the jumper-to-slope angle.
If you saw the replays you mentioned, you had to notice it.
You can either jump really high o extremaly low, slow or fast, if you keep the right angle you'll land safely.
If you keep pushing your jumper forward, even though your speed icreases, your position will become too parallel with the slope and you have no chance to land it. Similar on small and big hills. You even have this on Zakopane. If you jump too agressive you can easily fall a 80 m jump.

So i think that if you keep the position right till the end of jump you will manage to land even really distant jumps (latest Anton's jump on KULM).

[EyTschej]

Metsi, you missed the point: I was comparing the game to reality. That's why I mentioned those 4 jumps of real jumpers. When you say, it doesn't matter about the flying curve, then this would clearly be a slap in the face of what DSJ is all about: Being a REALISTIC ski jumping game. The landing physics need tweaking towards realism. Looking at the current 219+ records at Kulm, none of these landings should have been possible, not with "aborting" the jumps like that.

But, oh well ... it's just a game, I know ...

[Jussi Koskela]

It's the angle of approach and the landing speed that really matters. The ski jumper must also have enough time to get into upright position.
Raising the body a little bit up just before the landing increases the angle of approach but decreases the landing speed and gets the ski jumper closer to the landing posture in advance.

[Metsi]

I used the wrong word. The flying curve is NOT AS IMPORTANT as the angle of the jumper
And the flight and landing itself seems quite realistic to me. I'm not a jumper myself but as a person who watches a lot of jumping i would say we're almost there

[helGn]

I would think in my quiet mind that if you want it to be as realistic as posible Andy Jakesch you have to think about the amounts of force on the jumper when he lands, if you dont decrease the speed he will come down to earth with a higher force, and therefor the counterforce will be equally stronger. Thus making it harder to stand on your feet. And the force on the jumper when he lands (the long jumps) will be more down than forward, since the slope of the hill has evened out more than if he jumps further up the hill (I think).

[pikuvava]

My flying style is pretty agressive so i fly low and my speed is high and i must start landing really early to land.
So can someone give good advice for me because that leaning isnt working on me...

[EyTschej]

The ski jumper must also have enough time to get into upright position.

Of course, and that's what's good about the new landing system in the game. However, here comes the but: Starting the landing procedure too early would have a negative effect on the chance of standing the jump - in reality! That's why I mentioned Ahonens famous 240-meter-crash in Planica. What I see in the longest Kulm replays of DSJ4 reminds me of that jump except for the fact that the DSJ jumpers don't break their ribs, but actually stand as if they weren't affected by the increased landing pressure due to "aborting" the jump. It just doesn't add up. And Ahonen's jump was reality, not computer theory. Your formula needs tweaking, Jussi. Just compare the 4 jumps I've mentioned earlier. That is the effect of speed and gravity in reality. Then look at the best Kulm replays. You will see what I mean. At least I hope so. It's pretty obvious to me. I was watching the DSJ replays and went like "WTF lol?!? How did he not break his ribs/legs?!?" ...

Raising the body a little bit up just before the landing increases the angle of approach but decreases the landing speed and gets the ski jumper closer to the landing posture in advance.

I've tested this theory and maybe I could send you a collection of replays and you tell me if you can see a clear mistake or if you think that I actually should have been able to land these jumps. I actually have two 219 jumps - one with early landing like in the replays of the longest jumps, one with Harri-Olli-landing. Both times, I fell. I just don't see what else I could change. Except for intentionally jumping short ...

EDIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMHL3b5t4qQ
This is Vikersund 2009. Another example of what happens in reality when you can't finish a jump and have to abort. And Schlierenzauer only aborts like 10 meters before landing, he really tried to finish the jump. Mabye if he had he would have had a chance to stand the jump, no-one can say. But in the DSJ4 replays, I see players already starting the landing procedure at about 200 meters and then they land at 219 meters and don't fall - what's up with that?!? They abort the jump almost 20 meters early and don't fall?!? I'm pretty sure Schlierenzauer would call that impossible ...

EDIT2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxea7Zjq3Eo
Olli in Oberstdorf. He starts the landing procedure less than 10 meters before landing and just manages not to fall. And that's my point: In DSJ4, you should also only be able to stand such a long jump at a ski flying hill when you "brake" within the final 10 meters. If you already start "braking" before 10 meters, the landing pressure needed to be higher. It needed to be so high that you won't be able to stand the jump anymore. So yes, I think the landing system should be changed so that it's even more unlikely to stand 215+ meters at Kulm. Simply because it would be more realistic. And IF you can stand 215+ meters at Kulm, then please not like it is now, only like Olli in Oberstdorf ... angle > forward speed ...

[Bartek Palewicz]

Vikersundbakken and Kulm are compeletly different hills! Do you remember Nagiller's 220? He had no problems with standing this jump. It wasn't his fold, it was binding.

[Jussi Koskela]

Your formula needs tweaking, Jussi.

They are actually Mr. Newton's formulas.

I am not deciding if the ski jumper should fall or not. Basically I set the constraints (i.e. how the ski jumper tries to move and how much power he has in his muscles) and after that it's up to the physics engine to determine the outcome.

The difference between the top jumps in DSJ4 in Kulm and Ahonen's 240m in Planica is that Ahonen made an emergency landing resulting a very high approaching angle whereas the players in DSJ4 reduce the speed more softly.

The landings in DSJ4 look close enough to this to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pApPZY7T ... page#t=85s

Whether the in-run speed should be lower or if the profile is 100% accurate at 220 meters is another issue.

[Ivelak]

Your formula needs tweaking, Jussi.

They are actually Mr. Newton's formulas.

Bravo Mr Jussi!