General discussion about DSJ4.
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Post by HexTheRex »

Sounds good to me, I like stabile winds but actually they are not usually so stabile in real jumping. Maybe some rare bursts would be good idea...
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Post by Severin »

Jussi Koskela wrote:
Severin wrote: Will there be higher winds in the full version?
Should there?
Hmm, the worldcup system only displays the average wind speed, so called "tangential" wind, all the windmeters combined in one calculation. The wind shown in DSJ4 currently does not show an average, but the actual wind at the position of the jumper, am I right?

It would be nice to know if you used the actual profiles for the hills Lahti and Lillehammer, because if you did, the jumper flies to high currently, on both hils... So the conclusion would be, either set the air pressure or the possible wind higher and at the same time reduce the strength of the takeoff...

E.g. in my 131m jump in Kuopio this year I had definitely more than 3m/s on some parts of the hill, but the average was "only" close under 2 m/s ...
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Post by Jussi Koskela »

The wind in DSJ4 is currently the same for the whole hill (though it's rotated to match the tangent of the profile).
I have modelled the hills according to real world data, but there might be small deviation as the hill specs don't define every aspect of the profile precisely.
There might be number of reasons for a too high flying curve, the aerodynamics of the ski jumper being the most probable (and complex) one. I'll see what I can do.
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Post by Risen »

Jussi Koskela wrote:I have modelled the hills according to real world data.
Short question: Do you use official construction plans of the hills?
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Post by Potarski »

Aw... i prefer 2,5m/s wind to max and no more!
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Post by maciej53 »

I think that there should be max 2,5-2,6 m/s with moment blows to 3,0 m/s. Eventully maybe 3,5 m/s but very rarely (0,01 % chance maybe?).
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Post by EgyLynx »

maciej53: good mind, if i can say...
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Post by EyTschej »

Of course the flying curve is high in DSJ4, because the physics are obviously realistic. And since we can't jump in modern style so far, we can't get lower flying curves. We simply lose too much speed at take-off because we always have to take a 5-minute-break after take-off before we can push the upper body down. It all adds up.

In regards to take-off, there are two things I might want to add. When I did some jumping myself, the natural behaviour for the upper body was to straigthen up when taking off. Acutally, pretty much the same behaviour as when cycling and you're riding too fast into a road turn - natural reaction would be to get up with the upper body, but you should actually try to keep it as low as possible.

So the other thing is - and you can always see this in slow motion replay during World Cup events - that World Cup jumpers always push their upper bodies down after take-off. They jump, their upper bodies shortly get up (natural reaction) and then they immediately push their upper bodies down (which has become an automatism for them). All of this happens within a second and you can only see the details in slow motion replays on TV.

Consequently, we currently have a "beginner" in DSJ4 who doesn't yet have succesfully fought that natural reaction of pulling the upper body up. The speed goes down, the flying curve goes up. I really don't understand why Jussi changed this from DSJ3. I know that in DSJ2, there was an unrealistic take-off with the jumper pushing down to a negative angle in order to gain more speed (pretty much the Harri Olli style - see where it got him), but this didn't work in DSJ3 anymore. At least I never experienced this. When I tried to take-off like in DSJ2, my DSJ3 jumps would always be shorter. I'm not even doing that on sky flying hills, so this is basically why I still favour DSJ3 as the most realistic ski jumping game up to date. The physics seem better in DSJ4, but Jussi is not fully there yet ... still takes some work ... but then he'll get there eventually ...
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DSJ4 wind

Post by patison1 »

2.9 during jump and even 3.1m/s after jump thats the strongest wind in practice i had.
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Post by pepsiman89 »

you can manipulate the wind with CheatEngine, thats where most of the hacks are coming from i guess, ive tried it myself and it worked... though ive got no idea how to jump so far with increased wind cause it just flips me backwards... Jussi, you need to create some kind of block for cheatengine... but using it was fun... especially when i put the wind to 999 the flag was like 10 meters long... on 9999 the game crashed :S after that i immediately deleted cheatengine...
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