On the philosophy of record hunting

[davisp]

Good idea, but I don't know it would be easy to implement.

My suggestion to this mode would be only lowest WC gate and +1 gate comparing to it. But you see, it's sometimes heavy to get fastly good wind from gate +1 as possible. But I see positive: a lot of players would fastly get new, great records and rivalry for top places in Total Length classification and for world records would be much interesting.

Yes. I would say the gate should be the gate of the majority top 10 jumps on each hill.

[MJumper]

I agree that even in a record hunt mode there sould still be some randomness, basicaly it would be something like this:
Unlimited number of jumps for each player (so you don't have to duplicate jumpers), wind speed always above 1.5m/s and angle ±35° from optimal, jury decides gate as normally. The alternate solution is what you both said, predetermined gate and then a randomly selected wind that matches that gate. I think these options are pretty equivalent, both do nothing else but reduce the amount of wasted time so I don't see how it could be a problem.

But, you are right, Jussi should formulate his own proposal and make a poll so we get some kind of idea if this is even generally supported. Because right now the ones talking about this issue are the same few people all the time.

Also, what about an online record hunt tournament, maybe once/twice a month, with 2 times all hills and a guarantee of optimal gate and good (but not necessarily perfect) wind for each hill? I think, in addition to being incredibly fun, this would be a "fair" way to allow everybody an equal chance at record hunting. Maybe it could be used to test the concept?

[Georg Gasser]

Also, what about an online record hunt tournament, maybe once/twice a month, with 2 times all hills and a guarantee of optimal gate and good (but not necessarily perfect) wind for each hill. I think, in addition to being incredibly fun, this would be a "fair" way to allow everybody an equal chance at record hunting.

Great idea i think a Online Record Tournament would be interseting !

[Maciejo-96]

Idea about Online RH tournament sounds nice, but i think number of competition on one hill should be bigger, about 4. That would give bigger chance to beat your PB.

So finally, I think that Record Hunting mode should be implemented in online and offline game.

[Kreuzfeuer]

I think a record hunting mode is easy to create, it´s like the training mode but you can not change the gate and the weather (you have always the best wind condition and the gate which in the world cup would be).

[MJumper]

So, now that we have online records (thanks btw ), I think it is appropriate to revisit this discussion.

Take a look at the online records only one day after release, some of those jumps are very impressive. In fact, so impressive that it's obvious that people have not stopped record hunting; they have just moved it online (because, come on how often do you see 220 at Kulm in a tournament for example ). So online records implemented this way do not seem to eliminate record hunting, they just make it less convenient. For this reason, I would personally have prefered tournament records. But this is still a great improvement and best of all are the daily/weekly/monthly records. I think following these will give the most accurate picture (during season anyway), because nobody can hunt every hill every day so you get a more comparable idea of people's relative ability.

Also, even though I still dislike the idea of record hunting (and yet I stil do it, what a hypocrite ), online hunting is much more fun, mainly because of social interaction but also because of the added challenge of only having three jumps.

What do others think?

[Jericho]

Take a look at the online records only one day after release, some of those jumps are very impressive. In fact, so impressive that it's obvious that people have not stopped record hunting;

Quite pathetic to look at the People who goes in and out of the game, ski flying cup and New hills, alle day just to search for Wind so they can have their name on the list.

[MJumper]

Quite pathetic to look at the People who goes in and out of the game, ski flying cup and New hills, alle day just to search for Wind so they can have their name on the list.

Yes, this is what I was refering to. It does seem a bit "wrong", I agree. I have nothing against hunting in world cup/warm-up if you just jump every hill normally but going in and out is basically just the same as restarting offline world cup over and over again (only less effective since you get only three jumps).

[Maciejo-96]

Yes, it's irritating if you can't find good wind fastly, no matter if beating offline or online records.

[Jussi Koskela]

Quite pathetic to look at the People who goes in and out of the game, ski flying cup and New hills, alle day just to search for Wind so they can have their name on the list.

Yes, this is what I was refering to. It does seem a bit "wrong", I agree. I have nothing against hunting in world cup/warm-up if you just jump every hill normally but going in and out is basically just the same as restarting offline world cup over and over again (only less effective since you get only three jumps).

I decided to prevent this kind of wind searching in the online game. There's now a restriction that you may not restart the same cup server again during the next 2 minutes if you abort the cup during the first competition.

[davisp]

What about this: online records only count if there are at least 2 guys in the competition? Before online records nobody jumped alone in an online room.

[Jussi Koskela]

What about this: online records only count if there are at least 2 guys in the competition? Before online records nobody jumped alone in an online room.

Playing solo shouldn't be as attractive as it was in the beginning since it's not possible to wind hunt any more. I also removed some of the less used servers to encourage people to play together.

[MJumper]

@Jussi
Nice but there are still workarounds. You could jump two hills then restart or just switch between cups (alternate these two for maximum effect, the 2 minutes won't matter too much). Or even easier, you can just jump 0m everytime the wind is bad (which is not much slower than restarting). Of course these tricks only work when the rooms are empty, or if everyone agrees to cooperate, which is why I think David's suggestion is good, just make it more than 2, maybe 10 players at least to reduce the chance of "team-hunting".

It's kind of silly really that online records just drive people to jump alone instead of together which should be, in my opinion, the point of the online game. If the records were limited to tournaments, there would be no need to make additional restrictions, everyone would have exactly the same chances and actually more people might participate in the tournaments because it would be the only place to make records and apparently records are very important to some people.

[Jussi Koskela]

@Jussi
Nice but there are still workarounds. You could jump two hills then restart or just switch between cups (alternate these two for maximum effect, the 2 minutes won't matter too much). Or even easier, you can just jump 0m everytime the wind is bad (which is not much slower than restarting). Of course these tricks only work when the rooms are empty, or if everyone agrees to cooperate, which is why I think David's suggestion is good, just make it more than 2, maybe 10 players at least to reduce the chance of "team-hunting".

With those "tricks" you can approximately double the number of jumps compared to jumping in every competition normally. Doesn't sound very compelling to me, but of course I'm not a record hunter type of person.

[hyperlogic]

@Jussi
So now you have to delete all the records(ALL Players) and start again today at the World Cup (WC Wednesday 19.00 CE(S)T)