Changing of Wind conditions

[Thomasat]

Hey..

Could any one make a program, trainer or what ever you call it, like the one for DSJ2, so I can change the wind conditions?
Make it crazy like the one for DSJ2..

It's just so much fun when you can mess up the wind completely

[Jussi Koskela]

Could any one make a program, trainer or what ever you call it, like the one for DSJ2, so I can change the wind conditions?

That's a bad idea since it would only spoil the competition (and I would block the use of it anyway).

[Vik]

Hmm... it's maybe funny... but more fun than now??? There are a lot of other things should be done, than a WindGenerator, I think...

[Thomasat]

Could any one make a program, trainer or what ever you call it, like the one for DSJ2, so I can change the wind conditions?

That's a bad idea since it would only spoil the competition (and I would block the use of it anyway).

You would block it for private use
Why?

Of course you block it for online playing, but would be real fun for private use

Btw.. Did you get my e-mails?:D (Thomas Andre Teige)
I want to play now

[bioLarzen]

Hi everyone.

I used to play DSJ3 for a long time but gave it up - and exactly because of the wind. I don't know how typical what I was doing was, but instead of jumping with one "human" jumper, I created like 80 jumpers and played whole seasons with these imaginery competitors.

what spoiled the fun so much that i gave it up was the wind. Rather soon it turned out that there was something fishy with the wind. Most of the time I got a back wind right at the start. When it happened, most of the times it remained a back wind throughout the comeptition - which was around 110 jumps. When i got a headwind at the start, like 90% of the times it turned to a backwind in no more than 15-20 jumps. At about 8 in every 10 games around 90 of the 110 jumps had to be taken with back wind. This might be reality but it sure ain't that much fun.
OK, shit happens, i know, but Jussi, you should maybe consider this: when I play a game, i might not always want to sacrifice the promise of success for reality. You're right: the ability of setting fixed wind conditions would be something like "cheating" or playing with reality, but it would also mean a more enjoyable game for some. Those who are only after real conditions (and I wouldn't think getting as much backwind as I was getting is real at all... I still suspect some bug or hardware malfunctuion here...) could opt for random wind conditions, like it is now. and those who would prefer long jumps over helplessly short- backwinded ones, could chose fixed wind conditions.

I made this suggestion to you earlier in a mail but you didn't seem to like the idea.

I would be happy to see a fixed wind direction option as I liked the game very much and played practically every day for years - and I'd be more than happy to get back on track without knowing I'll be mad in 10 minutes because of the back wind.

Gabor
from Hungary

[bioLarzen]

Oh, i forgot to ask: is there anyone else out there who plays like i used to? Generating a huge pile of jumpers and then having competitions with them? If so, am i the only one experiencing this trouble of the wind always being or turning into back wind?

Gabor

[Bernhard Birkeland]

I agree that it is 90% backwind in this game, and as bioLarzen says, when a competition start with backwind, it stay there, but when the competition start with headwind, it almost always turn to backwind:(
Is this reality?!?
Why can't it be 50/50 in headwind and tailwind??

BB2

[bioLarzen]

I agree that it is 90% backwind in this game, and as bioLarzen says, when a competition start with backwind, it stay there, but when the competition start with headwind, it almost always turn to backwind:(
Is this reality?!?
Why can't it be 50/50 in headwind and tailwind??

BB2

Thanx, BB, for the feedback. Seems like it's really some kind of bug - because I'd hardly think it's on purpose...

I've been watching the wind for the past couple of seasons IRL ,and from what little data there was available it seems that there are hills where the wind direction is pretty stable and hills where the wind really tends to whirl around - but it doesn't seem like there's a pattern of the wind always changing for the worse...

Can anyone see any disatvantages of an optional fixed wind direction, that is/can be disabled with online games and no official hill record could be set with fixed wind? I can't see how it would ruin anything or make anything less fair , but I definitely can see how it could make this game even more fun - for some, maybe...

And don't get me wrong, Jussi, I'm not at all against the game or you, I still love the game and I appreciate what you've been doing with it in a huge way! What Ive been proposing for years could, I very strongly belive, be an improvement, that's all.

(Heck, dude, who could say a bad word about you after Fatal Fumes???

[Jussi Koskela]

I agree that it is 90% backwind in this game, and as bioLarzen says, when a competition start with backwind, it stay there, but when the competition start with headwind, it almost always turn to backwind:(
Is this reality?!?
Why can't it be 50/50 in headwind and tailwind??

Ok, maybe it's time to bust this myth...

I wrote a test application which runs 100 world cup competitions with 150 jumps on each competition (70 in qualification, 50 on the first round and 30 on the second round). So, total of 15000 jumps were simulated. The direction and the velocity of the wind was saved for each jump 15 seconds after the jump started.

Below you can see the graph with all the 15000 wind samples plotted to it. The blue dots represent the wind samples and the big red dot represents the average wind. As you can see, the wind is distributed very evenly to all directions and the average wind is very close to origo just like it should be.

Myth busted!

[Frode]

Just to put an end to this question....Take a screendump of every jump and Mr Jussi will see what we are talking about. Cause some place on the road the tread did go missing!

[bioLarzen]

Ok, maybe it's time to bust this myth...

I wrote a test application which runs 100 world cup competitions with 150 jumps on each competition (70 in qualification, 50 on the first round and 30 on the second round). So, total of 15000 jumps were simulated. The direction and the velocity of the wind was saved for each jump 15 seconds after the jump started.

Below you can see the graph with all the 15000 wind samples plotted to it. The blue dots represent the wind samples and the big red dot represents the average wind. As you can see, the wind is distributed very evenly to all directions and the average wind is very close to origo just like it should be.

Myth busted!

Jussi, just tell me something then: why do we most of the time have a tailwind after a few jumps? I see that your test application did well, but on my computer the problem persists (I jumped a few hundred last night to check and got tha same result)? You might remeber me asking this in emails some years ago - might it be something with the software? I belive you, of course, that on your computer the gmame worked well - but can it be that it doesn't on mine? Is it public how the game determines the random starting wind condition and its random change during a competition? Is there something that might be affected by how my PC works or something like that?

[bioLarzen]

Just to put an end to this question....Take a screendump of every jump and Mr Jussi will see what we are talking about. Cause some place on the road the tread did go missing!

I'm talking of well above 2 or 3 thousand jumps. I played 2-3 competitions a day and did it pretty much every day for like at least one and a half year. One competiton had around 80 jumpers which means around 110 jumps per competition. that would add up to something like (if we allow that i didn't play every single day) 60 000 jumps. (I'm pretty sure it was more than that, but it's not the point.) You surely don't expect me to take and upload or attach that many screenshots ))

With that stock of jumps behind me I think I can say that I have a base to stand on and speak from. Belive me, if I say that there is something suspiciuous with the wind when I play the game on my PC, there really is something. Jussi''s chart indicates that the wind is really random - both head and tailwind. and I, of course, belive that he, on his PC got this result. But, first, that doesn't mean that we can't both be right, plus while he simulated his events I really played them - that, of course does not, very probably mean anything though.

And last: I hope you don't think I played the game for years like mad just to prove it's not good... I loved and still love the game - why would I come here and fake a problem that doesn't exist? What would be the reason?

[Grufugl]

My guess is it's a lot of psychology involved here. It is the deviating and/or annoying experiences we remember the best, isn't it?

Compare with this: Some players have also complained about getting a lot more bad wind than the other players during online tournaments. Some even claim that this happens to them 70 or 80% of the time. I mean, do they have an IP-adress that attracts bad wind or what? Of course not. And of course they actually experience from time to time to have worse wind then most others in some hills. We all do now and then.

My point is, it can be easy to remember such things and the feelings connected to them, and forget about all the average events that in reality make up the vast majority.

[bioLarzen]

My guess is it's a lot of psychology involved here. It is the deviating and/or annoying experiences we remember the best, isn't it?

Compare with this: Some players have also complained about getting a lot more bad wind than the other players during online tournaments. Some even claim that this happens to them 70 or 80% of the time. I mean, do they have an IP-adress that attracts bad wind or what? Of course not. And of course they actually experience from time to time to have worse wind then most others in some hills. We all do now and then.

My point is, it can be easy to remember such things and the feelings connected to them, and forget about all the average events that in reality make up the vast majority.

You are surely right in principle, but... when i realized there's something wrong I also made test competitions recording the initial wind directions and their changes exactly and presented the resulting statistics to Jussi in an email some years ago. These statistics said there was definitely something with the wind, obviously more than just bad luck.

And also... I say that there is something suspicious with the wind in virtually EVERY competition. Would it mean that I keep forgetting about competitions where there was no problem with the wind and remember only the problematic ones? Surely not. I don't say that there seems to be more tailwind than headwind. What i say is that this seems to happen just short of "always".

And, since I play against myself (I jump with all the 80 "human" jumpers), I can't even complain about the opponents' luck :DDD

[Jussi Koskela]

Is there something that might be affected by how my PC works or something like that?

The wind randomizer is not hardware dependant, so I really can't see any reason why the wind would work differently.